very difficult ancestress- Sarah Glossop, Sheffield

[alunno-a]

Dear All,
I've probably posted on Sarah Glossop before, forgive me, but I am at my wits end! I'm hoping that someone would be kind enough to look at this and tell me if I am an idiot.

my 4x great Grandparents- Sarah Glossop, spinster, and William Thompson, widower married Sheffield St Peter's both OTP, 3 jan 1791.
I've long since given up on Wm, -too common a name really, and the only info I have is he was desc as a Schoolmaster at bapt of twin daus, 1792, and son 1795.
So, concentrating on Sarah I am flummoxed.- assuming ( big one) she was born in Sheffield area, there are loads to look at. The clue- am I right in thinking?- should be the witnesses to her marriage. These were a David Glossop and an Ann Birkinshaw.
As far as I can see there are 2 David Glossops as adults in the records at this date- one son of Stephen who was apprenticed years earlier as a cutler- the other a Game keeper/farmer, son of an Abraham, Farmer at Ecclesall. This David married a Sarah, but did not seem to have a dau Sarah, but he did have a sister called Sarah b c 1754- a good "fit" for dates. As for Ann Birkinshaw- there are severall, but also an Ann Glossop who married a Joseph Birkinshaw of Button Hill , Ecclesall.
So I've made a flying leap at my Sarah being from Ecclesall, dau of Abraham, sister of David. And MAYBE Ann was Hannah daughter of David son of Abraham.
Trouble is there are loads of possibilities, so, I would really welcome some help here!!

[Hazel17]

The facts seem to fit but born c 1754 and married 1791, that would make her about 37 , a bit late for that era but then a widower might  marry a slightly older lady.  One thing I have done to determine age of female ancestors is find every child baptised to them. If they are a family that baptises their children fairly soon after birth you can sort of work  out when she stopped being able to have children. If she had children roughly every 2 years or so then I estimate the last child to be born when the mother is early forties which gives some clues to when to look for a baptism. Definitely not a sure fire formula but something to bear in mind.

So when was her last child baptised? I assume they both die before the 1841 census?

As regards William if he was a schoolmaster then you could try searching through school records in Sheffield archives and see if there are any clues there.

[alunno-a]

Thank-you for your reply---
Yes, I have looked at Sheffield Schools for William, with no luck at all. I wondered if there was a connection with the Robert Thompson who ran the Free Writing School, but have found nothing- not even in Directories. Trouble is that "schoolmaster" could mean just about anything- from a degree holding cleric to a charity school teacher in his spare time. I have another contemporary ancestor described as a schoolmaster at his marriage, and baptism of first children, but he was really a Market Gardener. ( and no relation to William ).
 I don't know whether Sarah and William were dead by 1841- their son, Benjamin had had married in Otley in 1815, so the family may have moved around-  looking for Sarah and William Thompson is a nightmare, they could be anywhere, and I do not know their ages.

They baptised three children at Sheffield-twin girls,in 1792, and then my Benjamin, born in 1794 I presume as bapt early Jan 1795.-and the only reason I know it is them is that they helpfully named the son Benjamin Glossop Thompson, so of William, Schoolmaster- the girls as daughters of William, schoolmaster. These are  the only William as a schoolmaster bapts in that parish- there are none at Ecclesall Parish of Ease later in the record. No Burial at Ecclesall for a William that really fits- except one who is described as a gardener, and no burial that would fit for Sarah. This makes me think they lived in Sheffield itself, and then may have moved on?

#Thank-you for your help, it is much appreciated
Sally

[Hazel17]

Hmmm. If you can't find any more children then that implies Sarah was a older woman and so last child baptised 1795 would make her about 41 which would be about right.

David and Sarah are probably related and if the other David has no links to a Sarah then I would think logically that your assumptions are correct. Do you think Ann Birkinshaw is the married niece or sister of Sarah? Your post reads like she is Davd's daughter and so Sarah's niece - is she old enough to be married by then?

Have you tried looking for a Mrs Thompson's that dies - someone in their twenties/thirties? If you find a candidate you could see if there are any more baptisms to William and his first wife which may give you a clue to William. A bit of a needle in a haystack I know.

I also think that Sheffield was one large parish in the 18th century and that it was later split into smaller parishes which means being OTP could mean they were from anywhere in Sheffield. I don't suppose they have a son Abraham do they... Have you traced their twin daughters to find out where they went? Sometimes elderly parents end up with children in a census or buried where the children are living.

I have a similar probelm with a John Roberts in my tree in London, I have no age no occupation, no burial that could fit the age group I assume him to be in. Just a marriage on which he is a widower and a handful of baptisms to him and I know he dies pre-census as his wife dies a widow. 

[alunno-a]

Yep its difficult !

I have looked at other William Thompson marriages in Sheffield- but none have Schoolmaster as occupation, and no other children are baptised of a William Schoolmaster. I have looked at burials for married Thompson females- but when I looked at Sheffield archives found no one as "Wife of William Thompson, schoolmaster"- however I did not have time to go through many of the burial years- and have not gone back as I believe the archive is closed for sometime-- so that is still to do.
As for the twins- Harriot and Charlotte- again very common names, and as marriages give no father's names pre 1837, I am stuck-  there are a number in Sheffield area, - and I've no proof they stayed there anyway. My Benjamin also died pre 1841 census- 1829 in fact- so there are no handy census records with stray relatives- his widow remarried in 1834 and none of the descendants have any connections in any record from the Thompson and Glossop family.
Abraham Glossop father of the Ecclesall David Glossop does not seem to have had a daughter called Ann at all- but does have this Sarah. David had a Hannah and a Nancy- and I think one of these COULD be my Ann Birkinshaw- she is on 1841 census at Ecclesall with correctish age- and even more convincing age in Ecclesall burials- but, no clues on the census. To make it less clear however- the other David Glossop son of Stephen- I cant trace after his apprenticeship---.
My family did not use the names David or Abraham, (or Stephen)- they used Sarah in the form of Sallie, Benj, William and Harriott- no Charlotte. They did use a Robert for the first son- which has always puzzled me. And Benjamin Glossop's widow had an illegitimate child before her second marriage- named Ann, but always using the surname Thompson, not the second husband's name.

clueless really ( me not them!)

[alpinecottage]

Don't know where the records for Sheffield would be, but have you had a look for wills?  A schoolteacher may have left one, or the other families, particularly the farmer; either way a will may help you rule in or rule out a particular family.

[jacques]

I checked baptisms at 4 Churches in Sheffield i.e The Old Church(The Cathedral) St Pauls, Ecclesall and Attercliffe.
Found this
Sarah Glossop27th Feb 1772  at Ecclesall daughter of Thomas Glossop a Farmer
also
Abraham  Jan 1766 same Father.

Could this be your Sarah???
There are several Glossop families using The Old Church  Father Matthew a Scissorsmith
John a Shoemaker, Moses a Cutler, David a Cutler, William x2 a labourer and a Cutler.Thomas a Shoemaker, Peter a Weaver, Stephen a Cutler, also Stephen a Joiner, Simon a Forger used Attercliffe.
 There was an illigitimate son John mother Hannah.
Then at Ecclesall church David Gossop a Farmer,

Have made a note of these other Baptisms so should you be interested in any let me know.

Good Luck
Pam

[alunno-a]

Hi Pam,

Thank-you so much for that,
I thought I had found all the Sarah's, but had not got the Sarah dau of David the Cutler- I thought I had "lost" that David. Could you tell me what date that was??

Frankly she could be anyone- I don't know for sure she even came from Sheffield anyway, and although the daughter of Thomas ( who was I think Abraham's son- the brother of the Sarah I'm looking at) looks a poss I feel she would be too young at 18 to marry a widower, not impossible of course as William may have been young himself. I am working on the idea that she was the Sarah bapt 1754 daughter of Abraham, really because that would make her the sister of the David Glossop I believe witnessed the marriage, and Aunt of Ann Birkinshaw, who is on ( probably the same person) the 1841 census at Button Hill Ecclesall.
Abraham Glossop son of Rowland Glossop, farmed at Ecclesall and used the Sheffield parish church upto about the time  Ecclesall chapel came into use for baptisms and burials.

The best other fit for Sarah may be the dau of a William Glossop who had a sister Ann, baptised at Nether Chapel in 1759, non cons, but they don't seem to have a David in the family.

So, thank-you!! I'd be grateful for the David cutler details and shall have a look-

Sally

[jacques]

Think you may have misread my post.

The only SARAH GLOSSOP I found was the daughter of Thomas Glossop a Farmer. she was also brother of Abraham bap Jan 1766.

Obviously if William Thompson was a widower when he married Sarah, there was at least one previous marriage  I found these two  possibles
William to a Mary Gooding Sheff Cathedral  ref E/1369/4275 between Oct 1776 and Sept 1783
Wiliam to a  Mary Chapman   "       "             "   F/2008/6861       "        Oct 1783 and Sept 1788.

Sorry I couldn't narrow the years down.

Pam