John Clish

[Gadget]

Hello Rol 

I've got a bit more as I've found an entry for him in the National Archives (WO 97 Chelsea Hospital - Soldiers Service Documents (Chelsea pensioners))

WO97/1219/284
Covering dates - 1803-1814
John Clish. Born Newcastle, Northumberland.
Served in the Royal Artillery Drivers. Discharged aged 30

http://www.rootschat.com/links/0edu/

Also, from another source , I summarize ~

Parish of Birth: All Saints, Newcastle  (I don't see a  baptism for a John Clish in the All Saints indexes so I'm still thinking that the Newburn bpt is the most likely. Newburn was a small village to the west of Newcastle but is now a suburb of it)
Age at attestation: 19 years
Discharge rank: Driver B Troop

Served in the said Regiment for the space of Eleven years and 23 days but in consequence of a Reduction hereby discharged: having first received all just Demands of Pay, Clothing, etc. from his entry into the said Regiment, to the Date of Discharge as appears by his receipt on the back hereof.

Description:

He is about 30 years of Age, is 5 feet 4 inches, brown hair, grey eyes, fresh complexion and is a collier
Discharged 25th July 1814, Woolwich



gnu

(Terry -If you are using this information,  I'm wondering if you might make an acknowledgement to Rootschat in your account of John Clish on your website 

[Gadget]

A wee bit more:

A report from the local press:

Newcastle Courant, Saturday October 21 1826, Issue 7828

At the Durham Quarter Sessions on Tuesday last, John Clish, for stealing two shirts from Green Taylor of Wreckington.......................sentenced to be transported for 7 years


gnu

[Gadget]

I wouldn't like this to be information overload and  hide my finds on the Prison Hulks and the Napoleonic Wars (above)  but this might be a family for John:


Marriage on the IGI extracted index:

Newburn, Northumberland 11 June 1804 John Clish and Frances Ramsey

and  baptisms of three  children for this couple ~

Newburn, Northumberland 24 October 1804  Thomas
Ryton, Durham 22 Feb 1807 Elizabeth (born 22 Feb 1807)
All Saints, Newcastle, Northumberland 14 June 1814 Mary  (Parents - John Clish and Frances)


Possible for Frances Clish

1841
Eighton Banks,Lamesley, Chester le Street, Co Durham
HO107/300/8/7/8

Frances Clish, 55, Ind
Edward Ellis, 30, Quarryman
Joseph Mather, 20, -do-

All born outside of Co Durham

And 1851

Low Road, Lamesley
HO107/2394/535/28

Frances Clish, widow,  67, pauper, b. Newburn, Northumberland

Added - mabe a double entry:

1851
Waldridge, Chester le Street, Co Durham
HO107/2394/217/32-33

Edward White, 38, coalminer b. Washington, Co Durham
Mary, 41, b. Northumberland
John Clish White, 19, coalminer, b. Lamesley
Frances, 8, b. Gateshead
Edward, 5, b. Lamesley
Isabella, 1, b. Witton Gilbert
Frances, visitor, wid,  67,  b. Northumberland


And 1861

Hunters Terace, Waldridge, Co Durham
RG09/3759/81/9

Edward MgGregor White, 48, coal miner, b. Co Durham, Washington
Mary White, 50, b. Northumberland, Newburn
Edward Barmsy (?)^^ White, 15, coal miner , b. Co Durham, Witton Gilbert ^^ Ramsey
Isabel White, 12, b. Co Durham, Lamesley
Frances Clish, mother in law, widow,  80, b. Northumberland Newburn


gnu

[Rol]

Well found -- seems this chap's got quite a fascinating history.

I wouldn't like this to be information overload and  hide my finds on the Prison Hulks and the Napoleonic Wars (above)  but ...

(Feathers in cap all still fully visible )


Rol

[Gadget]

 seems this chap's got quite a fascinating history.

I'm still trying to find more bits and pieces but am off on my travels early tomorrow so hope you will join in, Rol. We've done a few searches together in the past  


gnu

[terryau]

Good Morning and again many thaks to gnu and others.
The background to my request for look up is the result of some work i was doing on my 'mineworkers' site. I noticed that he sustained a fatal injury to his head froma pick falling from a great height whilst he was ascending from the (coal)mine. He lingered in pain for three days. I thought what a terrible way to die. So the search on Trove and Roots web was to find out some more information from him.
Gnu i have already made mention of Roots web assistance, but will add to it.

Terry

[terryau]

morning again,  oops an eror  ' a pick falling from a great height'

terry

[Gadget]

Gnu i have already made mention of Roots web assistance, but will add to it.

Terry

and from your website:

also posted a note on the Durham site of Roots web

Hi Terry 

I think it might be better to mention RootsChat




gnu

[Rol]

… I'm still trying to find more bits and pieces but am off on my travels early tomorrow so hope you will join in, Rol. We've done a few searches together in the past    ...

Slow response to that invitation,  I am afraid -- been away from the computer.  Plus all the foregoing is a tough act to follow -- it's not merely the "low-hanging fruit" that's already been plucked!   Originally I landed on the thread fortuitously,  simply looking for material about transportation in general -- and then innocently thought I would just stick my oar in for a mere sentence or two,  in order to utter about "uttering".  Just shows how one can get led astray;  got me hooked now!

Well,  yesterday I belatedly did some digging into Mr Clish and his connections,  so here goes -- with my trademark brevity.

By way of supplement to the Courant's 1826 report about Clish's first sentence of transportation,  and as a direct response to this in "the OP's OP" --

… John CLISH was tried and sentenced to 14 years tranportation to NSW at Durhan Quarter Sessions on the 30 June 1834. Can any one advise as to where I might find on line the details of the court hearings. Alternatively, can any one do a look up for me. ...

-- here is the paper's short para about the conviction which lead to the second and decisive sentence of transportation:

Newcastle Courant,  Sat. 5 July 1834:

DURHAM MIDSUMMER SESSIONS
The following prisoners were tried at the quarter sessions, held at Durham, on Monday last:--
… JOHN CLISH, charged with having stolen one poke and a boll of wheatmeal, from the mill of Edward Edwards, of Heworth; transported for 14 years.

Presumably poke was used there in the sense of a bag or sack,  as in the phrase to buy a pig in a poke -- meaning to buy or accept something without proper inspection in advance.

(Terry -- I fear that it is highly unlikely that anybody would have made any more detailed record of the hearing than that.  Just as now,  the press would only have made some attempt at a transcript of the proceedings if the facts were unusual or salacious,  or if the accused was well known in the local community.  There would only be any chance of a brief law report if the case went to a higher court on some point of law.  And even if there had indeed been some procedural defect or other injustice at trial,  someone without a lawyer -- as he very probably was -- would have had virtually zero chance of organising such an appeal.  No "official transcript" would have been made.)

Someone in Tulsa USA has put up basic data (including census extracts) about Edward Edwards the Heworth miller on a genealogical website,  here:

http://members.cox.net/ggthomp/edwardedwards.html

Looks as though Edwards took on the mill at some date between 1827 and 1829,  and died in 1846.  His household's address on the 1841 census appears as "Windy Nook,  Heworth Mill".  (Just as well it was windy,  I suppose . . . ).

As to Clish's 1826 sentence of transportation and subsequent detention in the prison hulks,  if the abbreviation spotted by Gnu does mean that he was pardoned in 1831 it may be that a petition for clemency survives in TNA class HO 17;  the off-line index to these petitions is contained in nine paper volumes under the ref. HO 19.  See http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/catalogue/displaycataloguedetails.asp?CATID=7574&CATLN=3&FullDetails=True

Background information is to be found in para 4.2 of the relevant TNA guide here.  (N.B. that it is sometimes necessary to click twice on TNA web links,  with a three or four second gap between the clicks,  so as to penetrate beyond their search page.)


Rol