Would he be a colliery blacksmith?

[hanbsa23]

I am trying to trace Jonathon Tyson with very little information. No wife's name, marriage,  no birthplace or parents.

On his son William's marriage certificate ( 1863)Jonathons occupation is given as blacksmith. I have no birth cert. for William but all the census info points to him being born about 1837 ( I have no mother's name). William gives his place of birth as Workington so I am assuming the family lived in Workington. I travelled up to the RO at Whitehaven but had no luck finding William's birth registration/baptism.

As there are mines in Workington would the blacksmith bit be a colliery blacksmith - and would there be any records I could check?

Any help to break through this brick wall much appreciated

[Redroger]

It is one possibility, but remember that in the 19th century every community, and in many cases an estate would have at least one blacksmith, as there was much more work for them at that time.

[mosiefish]

Hi,

Welcome to Rootschat.

Can I take it that you haven`t found William on a census prior to his marriage to Mary Ann?  I certainly can`t spot him.  He only seems to be on the 1871, 81 and 91.   This would indicate that perhaps his father died before the 1841 census and his mother remarried or he was illegitimate and his mother married and from then on he was known under his stepfathers name until he married. 

Can you tell us if there was a street address on his marriage certificate and who were the witnesses?   It may help.

Regards,
Mo

[Geoff-E]

I wonder if I have found him in Barrow in 1861

William EDGAR 24 Rope Maker, Workington

Perhaps in 1851 he was-
William AGER 13 Workington (family of James and Jane NEWTON, her mother Margaret AGER was there too)

1841
William AGAR 3

This was his baptism http://tinyurl.com/3lewjck

Now, I can't find this person after 1861.   Was the TYSON name an invention?

Looking deeper ...
Jane AGUR was dau of Edward and Margaret ...

In 1810 Edward AGAR had married Margaret TYSON.

Coincidence or what? 

[hanbsa23]

Thanks for your responses - they help me think this through.
 
On Williams marriage cert. he is living in BArrow in Furness - he was married March 27 1863 at the parish church to MAry Ann MAcmillan

All his census inf. is, as you thought, after his marriage where he keeps stating his age and birth place. The only William Tyson I can find in 1841 is of the right age and living with his grandparents( HO 107/156/15) - the Mossops- I found the marriage of an Abigail Mossop to John Tyson in 1829 Gosforth Cumberland but I am not sure whether I should follow it through (or how far) since I don't know what I am looking for to find the link!

 I couldn't find an Abigail and John in the same census so you could be right and his mother is dead (the marriage cert does not say the father Jonathon is deceased). As his name  is Jonathon on the cert. I don't know whether he will have used Jonathon or John ....and there are loads of John Tysons.
 Any suggestions would be very much welcomed

[Geoff-E]

Thanks for your responses - they help me think this through.

Hi again   I hope you have been thinking through what I said above and not dismissed it out of hand - the stuff regarding William EDGAR.

What I am saying relies totally on the fact that I don't expect to find very many Ropemakers called William born Workington c1838 living in Barrow.  If you think there may be several, then it is safe to ignore my point. 

Can you find any trace of William EDGAR, Ropemaker, after the 1861 census?
Can you find any trace of a suitable William TYSON before 1861?

TYSON is a common name in Cumberland ... but not many Jonathans.  Although the IGI is not complete, it is still a useful tool.  Three show up - 1813 Irton, 1816 Eskdale and 1817 Uldale.

The first two are easily found in censuses, a Shoemaker and an AgLab.  The Uldale one is not seen again - apart from the 1823 burial of a Jonathan TYSON aged 5 at Ireby early in 1823 - just 2 miles away from Uldale.

If William's father was called Jonathan, don't you think it surprising that none of his sons had that name? ... but the first was James, the name of William AGER's stepfather (and first daughter Jane, same was William AGER's mother).

An illegitimate in my tree married twice, his father was named as
1) Bates - apparently the brother of the man named as his father at baptism!
2) Eli - his grandfather's name whom hed had presumably lived with.

Another one in my tree used the surname GALLERY in censuses and LISTER in BMDs, these being the maiden and married names of his grandmother!

Just more things to "think through"   By all means, treat what is on his marriage certificate as your first preference, but do not discard all other possibilities.  Making up a father's name for respectability's sake is far from unknown in this game.

[hanbsa23]

Thanks GeoffE

I really meant it when I said I am thinking things through! I am currently following through on your suggested possibilities. I'm a little slow at the moment because I am enjoying doing a really interesting on line geneology course with Pharos that is taking up a bit of my time.

I appreciate the help and the time you have taken to research for me - thanks. I'll let you know what I find (unless you beat me to it)