1891 Hartlebury Common, Sophia Hasken.

[ScallyW]

It seems to be the general consensus in this field that the person listed in this census with her children is one Sophia Coleman (wife of Daniel).  I stated on another thread here on Rootschat that I believed I have the family lines of some of the children listed there.  It was a theory of mine based on the names of the children on that census and I took it for granted that their mother was Sophia Coleman.  Now I believe differently.  I still believe that I have the right family but I'm certain that she isn't the wife of Daniel Coleman and I wanted to share the information I have in case other people have come up against the brick wall I kept hitting with this parentage.

In the line I'm following, I started off with the following siblings....   Matilda Bramwell (1878), Eliza Bramwell (1880), Emma/Emily Bramwell (circa 1882) - these are the names a living relative remembered - he also remembered that there were marriages to Boswell and Coleman involved somehow without remembering who exactly.  Seeing as these names fitted those of some of the children listed in the 1891 census, I came up with the theory that the direct person in 'my' line was a child of Daniel Coleman and Sophia but only because I believed the assumption of who the mother was in this census that I've seen on various boards.

I've found the following records for the Bramwell name, or variations thereof....

Births BMD Records
Thomas Bromwell  Q1 1872, Kidderminster.
Henry (circa 1876) - Several options available, all with different spellings so impossible to decide.
Matilda Broomall  1878, Martley, Worcs.
Harriet Brumill  Q1 1883, Kidderminster.
Eliza Brumill  May 1880, Shelsley, Worcs.
Emma Brumill  Q4 1885, Martley, Worcs.
Richard Bramwell  Q2 1890, Droitwich.

Marriages
Samuel Brummill & Sophia Hodgkis  Q4 1875, Worcester, Worcs.
Eliza Brumwell m Charles Davis 1903, Droitwich.
Emily Brumwell m Ambrose Coleman 1903, Droitwich.
Thomas Brumwell/Hodgkins m Rachel Hodgkins 1903, Droitwich.
Matilda Brumwell m Stradivarius Boswell 1903, Droitwich.
Harriet Bramwell m George Henry Phillips  1902, Kidderminster.
Richard Bramwell m Jessie Cook  1926, Birmingham North.

Baptisms
Eliza Brumill  May 1880 d/o Samuel and Sophia Brummil.  Shelsley, Worcs.  (Since discovering these names, I've spoken to a descendant of Emily/Emma Brumwell and Ambrose Coleman who offered the same names as parents to Eliza, Matilda and Emma and who says that Ambrose's family came from Ireland.

There is a record for a Daniel Coleman born 1845, Ireland, in the right area at the right time who appears to not be gypsy but as the census records found are before the DOB for Ambrose, I haven't been able to confirm it's the right one as he doesn't feature.  Additionally, his wife is listed as Sarah, not Sophia.

So, all that said, I think it's pretty clear that the Sophia Hasken listed at Hartlebury Common, is NOT Sophia Coleman.   

[Hodgkins Hoskins]

Hello again ScallyW. It's been a while but I think I have some new info (theories !) on "Sophia Hodgkins". First of all, did you happen to catch "Who Do You Think You Are" in the UK with Tracey Emin about a month ago ? She's a relative who's also descended from the Hodgkins & there was a fair bit of info on the Hodgkins branch we come from in Warwickshire.

Regarding Sophia. Reading everything you've posted so far I have to say I agree with your findings. Have you found this record : Death Sep quarter 1931 Sophia BRAMWELL aged 80 Worcester Vol 6c P.96. Now we know fairly certainly that 'Sophia Hasken' in 1891 is Sophia Bramwell, formerly Sophia Hodgkis. She seems to have been born c.1851 in Worcestershire. Because she's at Hartlebury near to Hodgkins & related families she probably was also related.

Could this record be Sophia ? : Baptism of Sophia HODGKISON 19 Dec 1850 Hentland Herefordshire dau of Elizabeth HODGKISON. Also birth record Sophia HODGKINS Dec quarter 1850 Ross district (includes Hentland) Vol 26 P.246. I had thought this showed Sophia Hodgkins who married Daniel COLMAN, but I now think it shows Sophia HODGKINS who married Samuel BRAMWELL. Also what is interesting is that the Elizabeth HODGKISON (HODGKINS) shown as the mmother of this Sophia could be Elizabeth born 1826 Evesham the sister of Esther HODGKINS (1829-1888). If I'm correct then Thomas BRAMWELL / HODGKINS & his wife Rachel HODGKINS would've been 3rd cousins.

Let me know what you think about this ?

Sean

[ScallyW]

Hi Sean,

First of all, no I didn't catch the Who Do You Think You Are programme.  I had seen all the others but missed that one which was very annoying as not only did it mention the Hodgkins but the area of East London that it mentioned at points is precisely where I come from and I know those areas like the back of my hand.  I went to school just round the corner!  I gather there was a comment on the Hodgkins being tied to the Boswells and the Lees which is something I'd be very interested in following as the Lees are my main personal interest.   I tried to view it on iPlayer but couldn't manage it so I'll have to wait until they are shown as repeats.


Right, back to Sophia et al...

You could be right... obviously there is a Sophia d/o Elizabeth born in the right time at the right place.  At this point it's guesswork if they are the ones we think they are but it does look possible.  I don't have any further information on Elizabeth Hodgkins other than her DOB - no marriage details or children's details.  When I thought that the Sophia in the 1891 Hartlebury Common census was the wife of Daniel Coleman, the idea was that she was the daughter of Esther Hodgkins so the son Thomas Hodgkins would already have been 3rd cousin to his wife, Rachel Hodgkins because she is a descendant of Henry Hodgkins and Elizabeth Cobourne, Henry being the brother of Elizabeth and Esther's father, Benjamin Hodgkins.  It would be interesting to find some sort of record for Elizabeth (1826) showing a marriage and more family details...

What made me originally think that 'my' Sophia was the wife of Daniel Coleman was the fact that one of her daughters, Eliza (w/o Charles Davies) had a son named Daniel and as it seems to be a not very common name at the time, could have been in honour of who I thought was her father.  It could be in honour of a cousin's husband though but that is very much guesswork.

There is one aspect of this tree that puzzles me... maybe you have some theories on it.

I always knew that Rachel married a Thomas Hodgkins and was driven mad trying to find a family for him because there seemed to be no 'spare' ones hanging about unmarried to slot him in.  Obviously, if he started off as Bramwell, that explains much and the page of their marriage registry in Q2 1903 states both Thomas Hodgkins and Thomas Brumwell.  Now there is another Thomas Hodgkins apparently knocking about.  I've seen a personal list (not very detailed, I must admit) elsewhere that gives a Thomas Hodgkins married to a Sarah / Sophia Coleman.  I can't recall specifically but I believe no parents are given and these names are noted as 'end of the line' going back up from the current day family.  I originally thought that this Thomas Hodgkins was the son of my Sophia and Samuel but have now changed my mind and am convinced that her son is the Thomas who married Rachel.  I have notes on how Rachel, her brother Moses, and all the future wives and husbands and in-laws camped together in various census records before their marriages so there is proof that these people were in each other's company.

So... any idea who this other Thomas Hodgkins and Sarah/Sophia might be?  Some of the descendants used the name Coleman instead of Hodgkins so that just confuses things even more.