Edward MENSFORTH, birth in tasmania or SA

[tropicalj]

Hi all.Ive recently been searching my husbands family tree.Niels Holm Iversen is my husbands great great grandfather.Iversen Niels Holm 29yrs (f Frederick Iversen) MARRIED 28 TH DEC 1869 Mensforth Charlotte 20 yrs f(John Mensforth) AT Congregational school room Port Adelaide.They had 8 children that i know of.The last name was quite often spelt incorrectly which made it difficult to find them.1.Iverson Frederick Christian born approx 1871.Couldnt find his birth but found his death.Died 27yrs Glanville 18th Oct 1898. 2.Iveson William Hollow b.10th May 1873 and died 5th Nov 1874 1yr.3.Inverson Agnus Elizabeth Jane b. 20th Jan 1875(MY HUSBANDS GREAT GRANDMOTHER) 4. Iversen Charlotte Maud b.4th Sept 1876.Couldnt find her death or if she married. 5. Iversin John Holm b.17th March 1878 d.15th Jan 1935 56yrs. 6.Arthur Ernest Iversen born approx 1878 or 1879 so would make him a twin.Couldnt find his birth but found his marriage. 7.Iversen Mater Olivia b.23rd June 1879 d 14yrs 16th Nov 1893 8. Iversen Henriatha Katrine b 24th May 1881 d 19yrs 14th May 1900. Mother of children Charlotte Iverson d 27 th June 1882 aged 31yrs buried at Cheltenham cemetery.Was unable to find her death in the South Australian Deaths.     Neils Holm Iversen remarried.Iversen Neils Holm 43yrs married 10 th Feb 1883 Elizabeth Jane Willcock 25yrs at the Congregational school room Port Adelaide.They had two children.1.Iversen Ludwick William b.5th March 1884 2.Iversen Alfred Victor b.9th June 1886 died 10th dec 1886 6mths.If anyone can help with the birth of Frederick,Arthur Ernest and the death records for both Charlottes would be of great help.

Welcome to rootschat


here is a link to the death notice for Charlotte IVERSON

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/43337496?searchTerm=iverson charlotte&searchLimits=

who  died in South Australia in 1882

[Essie]

Hi Milly

The only mention I could find of daughter Charlotte was the birth of one child.

Alfred William HENNESSY b. 31.03.1896
Father: Alfred HENNESSY
Mother: Charlotte Maud IVERSON
Birth Place/Residence: Wadnaminga
Burra district / Book 581 / Page 64

Found a death for an Alfred HENNESSY  27.02.1914 in Adelaide aged 44y.
Ade / Book / 382 / Page  61
His status was single so was not married to Charlotte Maud IVERSON.

Have since found Alfred and Charlotte died at Broken Hill where they lived for many years.  TROVE has an obit for Alfred.
Barrier Miner (Broken Hill, NSW) < Friday 28 March 1941

Essie

[Essie]

Milly, found a death in Broken Hill for Charlotte Maud HENNESSY.

30230/1951  HENNESSY  Charlotte Maud
father NELSON 
mother CHARLOTTE MAUD 

Charlotte Maud HENNESSEY's Burial Record.
http://www.brokenhill.net.au/Cem.php
Obit. Barrier Miner (Broken Hill, NSW) < Wednesday 3 October 1951 >

Five children for Alfred and Charlotte at Broken Hill from 1898-1910
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/cgi-bin/IndexSearch?
10782/1904  HENNESSY  CHARLOTTE M 
11851/1907  HENNESSY  ANNIE D 
19886/1898  HENNESSY  ROY L 
30086/1900  HENNESSY  ALFRED W 
24488/1910  HENNESSY  BESSIE C 

Essie

[JenClark]

Hey Milly,

Welcome to Rootschat 

So lovely to have another link in the chain with your Iverson info, just wish I could go back a bit further and find out if my Mensforth's tie in with these South Australian ones....I keep holding out hope that something turns up...let me know if you have gone further back with the Mensforth's 

Jenny

[majm]

Hi there,

Welcome to RChat Milly,

From NSW ER 1903, Electorate THE BARRIER, (ie Broken Hill and surrounds), polling place BURKE (no, not the town of Bourke)

Lottie Hennessey, Ryan lane, at her domestic duties
Alfred Hennessy, Beryl street, miner.

There's no way from the roll to know if this is your Charlotte (Lottie ?) and/or your Alfred....   It is possible that IF it is them, then Alfred may not have updated his address, or alternatively they had very recently moved from Ryan lane to Beryl St.  It is simply my speculation that it MAY be them.  1903 was the first year that females were entitled to enrol, it was not compulsory to enrol, and the literacy levels for both the enrolling clerks and also for the voters was not exactly university standard. 

A transcript of a birth for the couple eg the 1904 birth for Charlotte M would give you the then address of her parents.  On the other hand, a transcript for the 1910 birth would give you details about all the older siblings as well as the then address.  And, it seems likely there may have been others born after 1910 ....

Cheers,  JM

[JenClark]

Hello Everyone, sorry, I haven't been able to check in for awhile. It seems you lovely people have been very busy, thank you all for your replies and help with the mystery surrounding Edward. There is no mention of Edwards age on his kids certificates, it only mentions Launceston but now I'm beginning to think that it may be Launceston Cornwall and not Tasmania. I have since found that his father John (soldier murdered in 1850 S.A) may have gone back to UK around Edward's birth. The Edward that is mentioned in S.A is one of John's nephews that came out to Australia and married Esther.
I have applied to get copies of letters that John Mensforth wrote home, they are held at the ANL in Canberra, I'm hoping that what is in them may unlock some clues.
Thank you all again for your wonderful help in my search 

Hey EilHolli,

Just saw an entry on Ancestry for a 17yr old Edward Mensforth as an Ordinary Seaman on the 'Sorata' sailing from Adelaide to Sydney on arriving Sydney on 25th Jan 1864. It shows in the 'of what Nation' column Launceston....now Ancestry has it as Launceston, Cornwall but it does not specifically say this in the record....there are others on the crew list that have Tasmania as their 'Nation' so presumably they would have written Tasmania for Edward if he was from Launceston Tasmania......

Just a thought 

Jenny

[EilHolli]

Thanks Jenny, yes I found that record as well, it through me  bit as I thought it was Cornwall.
Sorry I don't get to check in very much, I wish I could do this research full time.
I do know that Charlotte was Sergeant John Mensforth's younger daughter, she married Mr Iversen. I am trying to see the link between John and the other Mensforth's in SA, there is so many Edwards and Johns around the same birth and place, it is very easy to end up following the wrong line.
Sir Eric Mensforth (now deceased) told me that his 2nd great grandfather and my 3rd great grandfather were the same Edward Mensforth (a gardener) from York. I am grabbing every chance I get to research this.
Thank you everyone for your imput over the last few weeks, I do appreciate it. I will try and check in more often.

Cheers

Eileen

[JenClark]

Hi Eileen,

No worries, I work full time too, so I know what it can be like trying to squish in the research time 

I would love to find a link between the two Mensforth families in Adelaide too, did anything come up in the letters that John Mensforth wrote? I would love to see copies if you know where I can access them or if you have a copy?

In my hunting around with this family I have come across the following in regards to your John Mensforth:

Another Rootschatter found that the National Archives Records state:

Item reference WO 97/649/82 (1818-1841)
JOHN MENSFORTH Born KIRKHEATON, Yorkshire Served in 51st Foot Regiment Discharged aged 41

I found some baptisms in Kirkheaton to this family:

Marriage Edward Mensforth & Elizabeth Harris 19 AUG 1793 All Saints, Wakefield, Yorks

Agnes Meansforth baptised 14 Sep 1794 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edward Meansforth
Sarah Mentsforth baptised 10 Apr 1796 Kirkheaton, Yorks Fa: Edwd Mentsforth
John Mensforth baptised 08 Feb 1798 Kirkheaton, Yorks Fa: Edward Mensforth Mo: Elizth
Edward Mensford b 8 Feb 1800 bap 06 Apr 1800 Saint Peter, Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edward Mensford Mo: Elizabeth
Ralph Martin Mensforth b 13 Dec 1801, bap 17 Jan 1802 Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edwd Mensforth Mo: Elizabeth Harris
Ann Mensforth b 18 Jun 1806 bap 31 Jul 1806 Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edward Mensforth Mo: Elizabeth Harris
Thomas Mensforth b 14 Mar 1811, bap 12 Apr 1811 Huddersfield, Yorks Fa: Edward Mensforth Mo: Elizabeth Harris

Is this the Edward Mensforth (gardener from York) that your Sir Eric Mensforth mentioned?

This Edward Mensforth appears to have died in Huddersfield, Yorkshire in 1820

Burial: Edward Mensforth 2 Mar 1820 Huddersfield, Yorkshire

Interestingly Ralph Martin Mensforth appears to have had family come out to Australia also, he married Jane Lindsay and one of their sons.....another Edward Mensforth.....came out to Australia and died in Victoria in 1871 aged 36yrs.


This family does not at first glance appear to fit with my Mensforth's (which is a shame) as my Edward Mensforth (b 11 Nov 1847 West Derby Lancashire, d 9 Aug 1930 South Australia) has a father named Edward Mensforth (b abt 1816 North Shields Northumberland, d 16 Aug 1866 Wednesbury, Staffordshire). This Edward names his father as John Mensforth (shipwright) on his marriage........but I have never been able to find him 


I thought I would try your John's family further back to see if there are any possible links and this is what I came up with as a possibility:


Possible baptism:
Edward Mentsforth bap 9 Aug 1767 Bishop Middleham, Durham, England Fa: Marton Mentsforth Mo: Ann

there is a marriage for this couple:
Martin Mensforth & Ann Suddick 11 Dec 1753 Wolsingham, Durham

and other children as follows:

Ann Mensforth bap 6 Oct 1754 Wolsingham, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mensforth Mo: Ann
Ann Mentsforth bap 5 Mar 1757 Stanhope, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mentsforth
Agnes Mentsforth bap 17 Jan 1761 Stanhope, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mentsforth
Martin Mensforth bap 27 Dec 1762 Stanhope, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mensforth
Mary Mentsforth bap 7 Mar 1765 Bishop Middleham, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mentsforth Mo: Ann
John Mentsforth bap 1 Oct 1769 Bishop Middleham, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mentsforth Mo: Ann
Elizabeth Mensforth bap 20 Apr 1772 Bishop Middleham, Durham, England Fa: Martin Mensforth Mo: Ann

I think this is likely your Edward's family as the name Martin is passed down in your line...what do you think? It puts the generation before your Edward of Yorkshire as a Durham family...which is getting closer to my Northumberland John Mensforth (shipwright)....I guess John Mensforth baptised in 1769 could be my Edward's father as he would have been about 47yrs old when Edward was born in 1816.........I wish I could be certain.......perhaps more digging is required!

I will let you know if I find anything else in my travels, would love to hear your thoughts on these records.

Thanks 

Jenny

[JenClark]

Eileen,

Not sure if you have come across this 'story' or not yet on Ancestry, but it is talking about Edward Mensforth the gardener (b abt 1767)

"He was a gardener to Charles Netherwood Esq., Steeton Hall, Nr Rittley, Yorks., and later to Almonds Brewery, Huddersfield.  "He  went to live at Manchester and had a flower and fruit stall in the Market, for some time living in the premises.  He removed to Salford and came to live in the same street as Grandfather Dutton, and next door to Mr Matthews, father of a Bradford dentist.  His youngest son Thomas by this removal met his future wife Ellen Dutton.  Edward was a tall, well-built man, and very proudly independent".

This tree on Ancestry has Edward's death as 10 Sept 1833 aged 66yrs, not 1820 as I had mentioned as a possibility below.

Hope it helps

Jenny