Edward MENSFORTH, birth in tasmania or SA

[duinnsleibhe]

Hi EilHolli, 

Here is a long shot. As tropicalj mentions, the Victorian Marriage Index suggests that Edward was born in Launceston.  Does the Marriage certificate that you have for Edward also state his age? If so, would it tie in with my suggestion that follows?

I was wondering if Edward could in fact be the John MANSFORTH mentioned on the Tasmanian Colonial Family Links database.
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?search=8
I realise that this database is not always correct but it is pretty good.

This John Mansforth, b. 1846, was mentioned previously on rootschat here:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,470799.msg3308071.html#msg3308071

From the Tasmanian Colonial Family Links database:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=393175
John MENSFORTH, b.1840 d.1840, Launceston, son of John MENSFORTH and Isabella MAROVA,  (if i am reading the results correctly, all these people would be named on the birth/baptismal record of Agnes MENSFORTH  http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=393172)



There is also:
http://portal.archives.tas.gov.au/menu.aspx?detail=1&type=P&id=371818
John MANSFORTH b.1846, Launceston, son of John MANSFORTH and Amelia MORRIS


Perhaps this is actually written as MENSFORTH in the original, handwritten record? You'd have to check the Registrar-Generals Department pre-1900 births, deaths and marriages records, Tasmania.

In any event, even the newspapers of the day varied the spelling:
John MANSFORTH, former Serjeant of the 51st
http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article36241863

I hesitate to mention the other newspaper/websites i found concerning John Mensforth in case it is irrelevant/unwelcome.

[tropicalj]

Only one MANSFORTH on  the Tasmanian Pioneer Index.

John born 13 th April 1846 at Launceston reg no 1234/1846

I search for any other children  with Amelia Morris and found only one  and she was Ameila Morris Brown.  The Tasmania index  does have quite a few transcription errors. 

So as Dunnsleibhe suggests a good possibilty  but will depend on  what age you have for your Edward.

Jenn

[Essie]

One John MANSFORTH left TAS  for Adelaide on the ship Julia in 1846. No mention of any family with him. Have not found a record of a family following him.

Knowing Edward's age when he died may also be helpful.

Essie

ADDED
http://www.slsa.sa.gov.au/fh/passengerlists/1846Julia.gif

[cando]

Essie I think this is his death

15584/1922    
MENSFORTH Edward
Father John
District Granville

Buried at Rookwood Anglican on 11 Dec 1922 in Section H; Row and Plot not available, Grave#5194.  No age on the burial record and there is no MI.

His wife Fanny Maria is buried in an unmarked grave in the Hay cemetery.  She died in 1917...surname mistranscribed

16671/1917    
MENFORTH Fanny M
Father Henry  Mother Fanny M
District Hay

Edward was the hotel proprietor at Hay in 1884 but was declared insolvent in 1890.  EliHollie would have all this information.

EliHolli what is Edward's age and place of birth on the birth certificates of his children?

Cando

[EilHolli]

Hello Everyone, sorry, I haven't been able to check in for awhile. It seems you lovely people have been very busy, thank you all for your replies and help with the mystery surrounding Edward. There is no mention of Edwards age on his kids certificates, it only mentions Launceston but now I'm beginning to think that it may be Launceston Cornwall and not Tasmania. I have since found that his father John (soldier murdered in 1850 S.A) may have gone back to UK around Edward's birth. The Edward that is mentioned in S.A is one of John's nephews that came out to Australia and married Esther.
I have applied to get copies of letters that John Mensforth wrote home, they are held at the ANL in Canberra, I'm hoping that what is in them may unlock some clues.
Thank you all again for your wonderful help in my search 

[JenClark]

From the Biographical Index of Sth Australia - not always accurate with detail.

MENSFORTH  Edward born 11.11.1847 Plymouth, England died 11.8.1930 buried West Terrace Cemetery, SA.
Arrived:  1875 on the NORTH
occupation;  Carriage Examiner,Iron turner
married:  Esther born 1850 died   9.1.1930
children:
Eliz   1868
Joseph 1870
Ed  1872
Wm  1874
Helen  1875
Emma FITZGERALD c1881-1957
G (male) 1883 - 1918
plus 2 sons.

Regards,
Sashar

Hello EilHolli 

You may have already had a look at a thread I wrote about this family a year or so ago

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,470799.msg3308071.html#msg3308071

The Edward Mensforth mentioned by Sashar is one of my rellies. He was actually born in West Derby Lancashire, not Plymouth as mentioned in the Biographical index.

I descend from his sister Martha Mensforth who emigrated to Qld, another brother John Boardman Mensforth also emigrated to Qld.

I am very excited to see that you mentioned that the Edward above is:

The Edward that is mentioned in S.A is one of John's nephews that came out to Australia and married Esther.

Have you linked these two Mensforth families together?? If so we are related 

I would dearly love to know how your Edward's father John Mensforth (the soldier) and my Edward's father Edward are related. All I know about him is that he was a blacksmith born in North Shields, Northumberland and reportedly the son of a John Mensforth (shipwright). I was stuck then at a major brick wall......

Can't wait to hear from you 

Jenny

[JenClark]

Hey EilHolli,

Just found the newspaper articles about John Mansforth's murder in 1850, scary stuff 

Well done finding him, I see that he is variously mentioned in the papers as "the sergeant", and old military pensioner....he was working as a shepherd at the time....interesting.

Do you have the death certificate? If so I would dearly love to see what it says about his family 

I see that his murderer was hanged...there is such detail in the old papers about things like this, both the murder & the execution....wouldn't see that in papers these days! Thank goodness!!

Did you ever get a hold of the letters he sent to his family? Most intruiging....

Can't wait to hear from you 

Jenny

[JTJennings]

Hi

Interesting to look at the thread, but I have additional questions....

My first cousin (thrice removed) Maria BAILEY married Thomas Ralph MENSFORTH 7 Apr 1857 St Johns Church Adelaide SA. They had a daughter Frances Mary MENSFORTH 22 Apr 1858 George Street Adelaide SA.

Does anyone know what happened to her?

Thomas died in the wreck of the Admella 6 Aug 1859 (see the various reports of the day).

South Australian Register, Tuesday 6 December 1859 includes the following:  Mr. McEllister also mentioned the case of Mrs. Mensforth, widow of Thomas Mensforth, who was a young wife with one child, and was again looking forward to her confinement, as deserving more consideration than it had received.

From this report, I assume but cannot find any record of a second child. Anyone know more?

Maria MENSFORTH (nee BAILEY) later married Robert KNOWLES 6 Aug 1863 Christ Church North Adelaide SA, and had a family of 6, although their first daughter died in childbirth.

Cheers, John

[JenClark]

Hi John,

Welcome to Rootschat 

I had seen Maria Bailey's marriage to Thomas Ralph Mensforth and the birth of their daughter, Thomas's death and her remarriage....but I was not aware of a second child....

The newspaper article certainly elludes to the fact that Maria was pregnant when Thomas died, but I cannot see a birth for a Mensforth child in 1859 or 1860 in South Australia......perhaps the child was still born or she lost it with all the stress? I suppose she could have had it registered under Bailey...but I looked at the records and I can't really see any possibilities......curious!

I wonder if EilHolli knows more? Or anyone else on this thread?

Jenny