A second opinion please! Coincidence, or have I found him?

[aliceaevdb]

Hello everyone,

I have been struggling with the Smith's for a while as we know very little about this side of the family pre 1920, but I *think* I have found Thomas Smith b c1879. I would really appreciate a second opinion, as I am concerned that I may be relying on coincidences and trying to make the pieces 'fit'!

I am going to list all of the information I have, so this will be a long post...

Thomas Smith, Born c1879.

This is definitely the family in the 1911 Census:

Living in Little Europa Place, Battersea
Head of the Household
Others in Household: Eunice Martha Duffield, Eunice Elizabeth Duffied (b1901) Ellen Violet Duffield, (b1904) Thomas William Duffield  (b1907) (all listed as visitors).

Thomas Smith married Eunice Martha Duffield, Widower (nee Banks) in 1912.
Their daughter, Ellen Violet Duffield/Smith, was my Great Grandmother. I have her birth certificate; she was registered under Duffield – presumably as her mother and father had not yet married - and no father was entered. I have no baptism for her. She married Thomas Henry Dickeson under the name Smith.

Eunice Elizabeth Duffield was her half sister (I also have her birth cert, and her baptism); mother Eunice Martha, father Percy Duffield (died 1902). I have not yet found a definite birth or baptism for Thomas Duffield/Smith. I am ordering his military records, as on the documentation we have he has blacked out his father and mothers names, nationality, and his own place of birth with a thick black marker. His next of kin is his sister, and on one booklet he put his D.O.B. as 1907, the next 1903.

I know nothing of Eunice Martha after 1926 when she is listed as living with Thomas at their shop, 55 Bridge Road West, in the Kelly's directory. My Great Aunt, who was born on 26th December 1930, remembers being told her Grandmother had died on her birthday - before, same day, or after we do not know. We have no death certificate or funeral card for her which is very strange as her daughter Eunice kept lots of documents and records.

I have Eunice Martha’s baptism, first marriage, and I have found her in all censuses. These are the ‘potential’ records for Thomas Smith:

Possible 1901 Census

18 Little Europa Place, Battersea
William Smith, 40, Coach Porter, Head
Mary Smith, 26, Wife, b Chelsea
Thomas Smith, 22, Son, b Chelsea
Aggie Smith, 19, Dau
Mary Smith, 16, Dau
Others all born in Battersea

Household Schedule Number: 221, Piece: 449, Folio: 24, Page: 40.

1891 Census

21 Little Europa Place, Battersea
Thomas Smith, 29, Coach Porter, Head.
Mary Smith, 26, Wife
Thomas Smith, 12, Son,
Aggie Smith (incorrectly transcribed as Hazzy on some sites), 8, Dau
Mary Smith, 5, Dau
Harry Smith, 6 months, Son.
All listed as being born in Battersea

Piece: 429, Folio: 23, Page: 34.

I have found a potential listing for the family in 1881, however Thomas, 20, Porter is listed as being born in Lambeth. Mary, 17, Manchester, Edward Thomas, 3 weeks, Lambeth. This family is at 20 Warwick Street, Lambeth (Piece: 598, Folio: 51, Page: 15. I'm not convinced this is the same family.

I have found marriages for Aggie and Mary:

Sarah Agnes Smith, 18, Father William Smith (Coal Porter), 18 Little Europa Place
Matthew John Moffatt, 20, Father Richard Moffatt, 33 Little Europa Place
25th December 1901, (St Mary?) Parish Church, Battersea.

Mary Josephine Smith, 26, Father William Smith (Coal Porter), 15 Little Europa Place
Michael Graney, 26, Father Thomas Graney, 47 Henry Street
25th December 1912, St Mary’s, Battersea.
One of the witnesses was Matthew John Moffatt.

I have found the Moffatt family in previous censuses, and have also found baptism and BMD Birth entries for Moffatt and Graney children (the Moffatt’s were still in Little Europa when their first child was baptised).

So, consistently Little Europa, although different housenumbers. I have checked neighbours, and there are no other ‘Thomas Smiths’ of the ‘right’ age. We know that:

* Thomas had a sister named Mary.
* My family have mentioned the surname Moffatt, although were not sure where this fitted in.
* Agnes used her middle name - perhaps the Edward Thomas in 1881 is correct, and he used his middle name too?
* My family lived in Battersea until the start of the War, were married/baptised mainly in St. Mary’s (occasionally St Peter’s).
* My Great Grandmother was married on Christmas Day, as were lots of relatives on the Dickeson side (I know this is a coincidence, but it does seem to be a trend!)

Lastly, my great Aunt remembers a cousin Mary marrying in to the Duffield family – as they were already 'related' by marriage, this caused problems. This would have been between 1930 and 1940. I have not found a Moffatt/Duffield marriage; however I did find a Mary Greaney/Frederick Duffield, 2Q, 1938 in Battersea. Potential misspelling - or grasping at straws?

Is this coincidence – or is this ‘most likely’ to be my Thomas Smith?

I am in a catch twenty-two as I know a marriage cert. for Thomas Smith and Eunice Martha Duffield (1912) would list his father and the occupation, 'proving' whether this is the right family, but I really can't afford to get this at the moment.

Thankyou for reading, I would really value any opinions (even if you think I have got it wrong, I'd prefer to know now before I start doing more research!)

Alice

[aliceaevdb]

Should have checked this earlier 

No Michael Graney with a father named Thomas in the 1901 Census. There is however a Michael Greaney, 15, son of Thomas and Rebecca in Battersea (although not at the same address, and the occupations do not match)...

[Redroger]

A fairly general observation, my grandmother's family lived in Cambridge Place, Cambridge, which I believe was a Victorian slum area. They were consistently living in the street for over 50 years, but like yours at a variety of addresses. I think it had something to do with the tenancies, so in my view it is indeed likely you have the right family.

[haliared]

I know this is not important for the research re: Thomas SMITH, but in case you had missed it, there is also a Percy William Duffield, born Jul 1898, baptised 24 Aug 1898 at Christ Church, Battersea, son of Percy & Eunice Martha Duffield.
He died Sep qtr 1898.

[aliceaevdb]

Hi Redroger,

Thankyou for letting me know about similar changes of addresses, it's reassuring to know that this is the same family. I was also wondering if the house numbers may have been listed incorrectly.

haliared - I had found Percy Junior , but thankyou for posting the details In 1911 Eunice Martha said she had 6 children born alive, but only 3 had survived (Eunice Elizabeth, Ellen Violet and Thomas William) . I'm trying to find the other 3 as these would have been my Great Grandmother's siblings. It's so sad to think they died so young, and I would like to be able to add them to the tree so they are remembered.

Thankyou for taking the time to read such a long post, I'm much more confident now and will start trying to fill in the blanks!

Alice

[carol8353]

Even in the 1930's my mum lived at 4 different houses in the same street in Cheshire. The same landlord owned them all and they would be asked to move to a larger or smaller house depending if another family of more or less people needed it.

So when my uncle left home to fight in WW2 they were asked to move to a smaller house up the road!

[Redroger]

Looks like the 1930s are on the way back, that is a current proposal for people living in rented accomodation, so far as I'm concerned OK if it is voluntary, we downsized a few years ago, but doing so ourselves and being in effect ordered to are different things.
Alice, It is likely to be the same family, this has not yet been conclusively proved, another less likely factor is that sometimes (rarely) streets were renumbered. Looking at sequence of families from census to census might show whether this seems to have happened.

[aliceaevdb]

Thankyou for your replies

We know so little about this side of the family that I was beginning to give up!

Carol8353 and Redroger - there was a programme on the BBC a while ago which dealt with 'voluntary' downsizing and those living in houses with spare rooms who refused to move... I think it was called 'Neighbourhood Watch', although I may be wrong.

Financially, for my family in the early 1900's, it must have also made sense to only pay for the number of rooms which you really needed - if you could even afford this. This BBC programme also looked into the fact that wherever these people lived they would receive benefits which covered all or most of the rent... so to them, there was absolutely no incentive to move to a smaller property which may be in a less desirable area - they weren't paying in the first place!

On the 1911 census the Smith family, 2 adults and 3 children, are living in 2 rooms - although like many who have looked at censuses I have seen far 'worse' overcrowding.  Puts today's complaints about overcrowding in to perspective...

Alice