Rev David Davies

[jenfair]

I am trying to find out about Reverend David Davies, my 4 x great grandfather. All I know from his daughters marriage certificate is that he was a Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Minister. According to some family history stories passed down through my family, he was a 'well known' minister.

His daughter Jane, married another Welsh Calvinistic Methodist Minister - Reverend Thomas Gray Williams - in 1867, in Barmouth. I think David was probably still alive in 1867 as the groom's father is listed on the marriage certificate as 'deceased' and David Davies is not. Jane was born around 1843 in Penmachno (according to census's 1871 and later). However, I cannot find a record of her birth online and am not able to go to Wales at the moment to look up any records. I also have been unable to find Jane before she was married and her parents on the 1851 or 1861 census. All of the cenus records I have looked at so far that list a David Davies with a daughter called Jane (the right age) do not seem to match as there are none with the right occupation for David. As there are so many Davies' in Wales I am not sure exactly where I go next as I cannot afford to look at every census entry. Does anyone know if there are any centrally held records for the Welsh Calvinistic Methodist church where any info about ministers etc can be found?

Many Thanks

Jenny Fairbrother

[hiraeth]

Hi Jenny

Welcome to Rootschat

Via Google books I found a reference to this document at the National Library of Wales

4821-4831B.
PREGETHAU, &c.
Sermons, addresses, notes, etc., 1834-86, mainly by David Davies of Penmachno, afterwards of Barmouth.
Welsh. XIX cent

It might be worth emailing the NLW to see if they have more information.

Occupations for ministers on the census can be tricky as many of them had other interest such as farming etc. - especially early on in their careers.

I gather you have Jane's marriage certificate.  As a matter of interest who was the officiating minister?  Many daughters were married by their fathers if they were ministers!

Heather

[rhosboeth]

Hi Jenny,

I found a possible David Davies for you in "Llawlyfr Hanes y Gyfundeb" [I think it translates as :"A Handbook to the History of the Connexion"] by The Rev D.D. Williams M.A., (not dated, ca.1925/6?):

- p.242 David Davies (1815-1887) of Abermaw [Barmouth]: - says he came under the influence of the 1859 religious revival and (p.277) that he was raised in Penmachno
Maybe some kind poster would care to translate it for you as my skills in that department are a little rusty!

John

[hiraeth]

another link to resources

http://www.archiveswales.org.uk/anw/get_collection.php?inst_id=1&coll_id=490&expand=

[hiraeth]

1881 Census, 46 Wellesley Rd, Toxteth Park, Liverpool
RG11/3647/106/5
Edward Ellis, 45
Catherine Ellis, 26
Elizabeth Jones, 29
David Davies, 65, Visitor, Calvinistic Methodist Minister, born Penmachno, Caerns
Elinor Davies, 72 Visitor, born Merioneth, Ffestiniog

[hiraeth]

1861 Census Penmachno, Caernarvonshire
RG9/4307/3/page 4 and page 5
David Davies, 45, head, M, Minister of the Calivnistic Methodists, born Penmachno
Ellen Davies, 52, wife, born Merioneth, Festiniog
Laura Davies, 19
Jane Davies, 18
Gwen Davies, 13
Evan Davies, 11
Catherine Davies, 7
all children born Penmachno

In 1851 at Plas Ifon Village, Penmachno
HO107/2508/429/20
David Davies 35, head, M, Farmer of 300 acres employing 5 men, born Penmachno
Ellen Davies, 42 wife, born "Do"
Robert Thomas, 21, son  (possibly step son?)
William Thomas, 19 son (possibly step son)
Laura Davies, 9, dau
Jane Davies, 8, dau
Gwen Davies, 3, son
Evan Davies, 1, son

[hiraeth]

North Wales BMD has a possible marriage 
1840 Penmachno, St Tyddud between 
David Davies and an Ellin Thomas.  Local Conway register office reference C22/1/11
The GRO reference for this marriage is Llanrwst vol 27, page 307 - indexed as Ellen Thomas
If this is the correct marriage it should have Ellen's maiden name recorded

In 1841 Penmachno village there is this family
HO107, 1395/fol 26/pge 12
David Davies, age 25, shkeeper  (possibly shop keeper?)
Ellin Davies, age 30 (ages rounded down in 1841)
Robert Thomas, age 11
Richd Thomas, age 8
Ellin "do" i.e. Thomas, age 2 (this may be enumerator error)

   

[Rol]

[I don't think the following sounds quite the same as the NLW source specified by Heather in her first reply -- apologies for duplication if it is in fact the same.]

David Davies of Barmouth was the subject of one of that breed of improving cofiant books -- economically produced and priced mini-biographies or memoirs,  usually about ministers who had attained a certain celebrity on the "guest-preaching" circuit and whose lives and (especially) sermons were felt likely to be an inspiration to the faithful.  Such volumes were often padded out with lengthy appendices immortalising their subject's greatest hits,  so the biographical information is not always as comprehensive as the printed length might lead one to hope.  Still,  they do usually have interesting material about immediate parentage and early influences -- so at 380pp. in DD's case,  definitely worth a look.  Should be possible to find copies very reasonably priced at Welsh secondhand book shops.

Here is a link to the book's precise details on the Open Library site,  to facilitate browsing the book-finder websites for it.  If there is not a copy currently in stock at one of the Hay-on-Wye megastores,  one may well be more likely to come across an example by telephoning -- or if possible physically browsing the shelves of -- appropriate small off-line booksellers.

To complete the census collection in preceding posts,  at the time of the 1871 DD seems to have been away from Barmouth "on tour",  staying at the Dovey Hotel in Aberdovey:  RG10/5602 fo.24r p.7.


Rol



BTW,  for ease of cross-ref and the avoidance of any future duplication risk,  I might record here that there is a related RootsChat thread on the Beginners board.  That one,  dating from September 2010,  focuses more on the daughter Jane and son-in-law Thomas Gray (AKA Thomas Gray Williams) who are mentioned in Jenny's opening post above.

[Rol]

For those who have access to the Gale online database of British 19th Century Newspapers,  the family mourners list published in accounts of DD's funeral on 12 Feb. 1887 could prove interesting.  Y Genedl Cymreig  seems to have been chiefly interested in the immense list of CM ministers who turned out;  the family themselves were given fuller coverage in Y Goleuad's account,  which appeared in its edition of Sat. 19 Feb. 1887.  Seven children are mentioned as attending (three sons and four married [and so unforenamed] daughters with their respective husbands),  plus eight grandchildren.  It looks rather as though the Cofiant David Davies, Bermo mentioned in my earlier post was written by one of Thomas Gray's fellow ministerial sons-in-law,  William Jones of Liverpool.


Rol