Bale/s Wellingborough area

[seahall]

Having looked further at Parish Records and censuses the
family do not appear to be in Northants after the childrens
baptisms 1800's.

Sandy

[molliedog]

Thanks John and Sandy for all your work.
Thomas Bales is proving to be a very elusive man indeed. I guess I will now try and widen my search to nearby counties and see if I have any luck there!
Thanks again.

[molliedog]

Hi Sandy,
Sorry to annoy you again, but is it possible they might be listed under Bates. I have found a Thomas and Susannah living in Denford in 1818. They are listed as having 3 children, Mary,10, John,6 and Anne 9 months.
I have tried to find birth records for them with no luck. I was wondering if you ever have a spare minute weather you would mind checking the northants parish registers for their births, as this might give me a lead to which county they were in until 1818 at least. Not sure if they would be listed under Bales or Bates.
I have since found a Thomas and Susanna Bates in Middlesex (1841,1851,1861 census) and the dates all fit and Susanna is listed as being from Northants, Thomas from Bedfordshire. Hope this helps
Thanks,
kristy

[seahall]

Hi Kristy.

No trouble helping is what Rootschat is all about. 

I have lookd at the Northants Baptisms and still can not find
any folk in Denford or nearby villages under either variants.

Also checked some non-conformists records I have.

There was certainly a John and Susannah baptising in the village
in that time span, none of the children were named as your posting.

May I ask where you have found the info stating that Thomas
and Susannah were in the village in 1818, was it a settlement order
or removal order at all.

Also as Thomas says he was from Harold and born 1781 that would
make him only 16 at marriage, not impossible as he may have
forgotten a few years.

His baptism at Harold may not have been when he was 1st born, maybe
a year or two later.

The 3 censuses you mention certainly have Thomas Bates as an
Soldier/Ex-Soldier.

Sandy

[molliedog]

Hi Sandy,
This Thomas is going to be the death of me, and hes not even my ancestor....hes my husbands!!
In the national archives I found a removal order to the parish of Eaton Socon for Thomas and his family (the 3 children mentioned, not the original 2 from wellingborough) from Denford, but I'm not sure if i ever happened. I have tried finding him in Bedfordshire after this date and there is no trace of them (even other rootchatters couldnt find any). Do you think the Bales /Bates thing is a possibility? Its so frusterating being in Australia as I would love to have access to the reords over there.
Is it possible there is a marriage for a Thomas Bates and a Susannah in Northants sometime around 1800? If there is then this will rule them out as being my Thomas and Susannah. If not, then maybe they are the Bales that get married in Wellingborough in 1797? What do you think?
Kind regards,
Kristy

[molliedog]

WE HAVE A BREAKTHROUGH!!
Well its a small win at least. I think I have found the Daughter Ann/Anne who is listed in th removal order for the Bale family.
There is a Ann Ball born 1817 (date totally correct) in Denford, to a Thomas and Susanna, which also fits with their removal order the next year from Denford to Eaton Socon. I have also found a John Ball, married in Eaton Socon to a Mary and he is in all the census 1851,61,71,81) as being born in Denford too (this fits with John in the removal order born abot 1812).
Not sure about the daughter Mary
Is it possible that the Denford baptism records support this Sandy?
Thanks so much for all your help.

[seahall]

Hi Kristy.

Sorry I have not been on Rootschat much this week.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,544175.0.html

I will try and answer your question next week if no one else does.

Sandy

[seahall]

Hi Kristy.

Reading through the topics I would myself go back to where
I have original documentation for the family, i.e. birth certs, marriage
and deaths working downwards to the family you hope are yours.

Sometimes by doing so it means the lineage if confirmed as much
as it is able to be, any errors become visible.

It would seem strange although not impossible to me to have the
3 surnames all relating to the same folk you seek although taking
in to account surname spelling variants it may be correct.

If you would like to show us how you started and made your way
down the tree it could also help us clarify for you too, if you wish.

I hope you are not offended by what I say as you did ask me what
I thought.

Sandy

[molliedog]

Hi sandy,
No I'm not offended. Any help at this stage is appreciated.
I think I can safely rule out the Bates connection, it was a long shot and from further research it is very unlikely. The Ball (which can be confused with Bale, particularly the way in which it is written in the old documents), is a real possibility, I think.
All I have that is concrete on this family is the birth of Thomas Bales in Wellingborough in 1803 to Thomas and Susannah. This Thomas was a convict and was sent to Australia in 1822 and is my husbands direct relative. On his death certificate it lists parents as Thomas and Susannah with his fathers occupation as a soldier. Now all this, appart from the soldier thing, appears to be correct.
You then found Susannah Toby (Bale) birth in Wellingborough, so her birth is known, and this is basically all I have.
From searching the national archives I found a removal to order for a Thomas Bale, Susannah and 3 children from Denford to Eaton Socon in 1818. This I am fairly sure is them. Now while the name appears to have a change here to Ball it fits with the birth of the 2 younger children as an Ann Ball was baptised in Denford by Thomas and Susanna in 1817 and a John Ball from all thie census is listed as being born in Denford at the same time as well. This is helped by the fact that these Ball children are then found in the census's in Eaton Socon where they married and then the 2 girls died.
If this is correct then the parents might well be Bedfordshire too, but I have found no trace so far, under Bale or Ball.

So thats the story and all I have.Hope this all makes scense!!
Kind regards,
Kristy