Author Topic: Thomas Fentiman, living in Clapham in 1805  (Read 2532 times)

Offline CV-S

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Thomas Fentiman, living in Clapham in 1805
« on: Saturday 25 June 11 11:09 BST (UK) »
Hi

I have finally tracked down the christening of my (illegitimate) ancestor.
Catherine Aris, nee Usher (born Patience Fentiman) was born on 20 March 1805 and christened on 11 April that year in Holy Trinity, Clapham.
Her mother - who I know all about (Ann Usher 1769-1871) was born in Sharnham, Kent. Her daughter Ann was christened in 1815 as the daughter of John and Ann Usher.

Patience Fentiman was christened with parents names, Thomas Fentiman and Ann Usher.
Does that mean she's illegitimate?

I would love something more than just a name for Thomas, when was he born and what happened to him?

Any help with Thomas please

Thank you  :)

Offline karenlee

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Re: Thomas Fentiman, living in Clapham in 1805
« Reply #1 on: Saturday 25 June 11 11:14 BST (UK) »

Hi

Reading the entry it actually says...

First daughter of Thomas FENTIMAN Gentleman and Ann his wife, late Ann USHER Spinster.

So one could assume from this that there was in fact a marriage between Thomas and Ann.

Cheers
Karenlee
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Offline CV-S

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Re: Thomas Fentiman, living in Clapham in 1805
« Reply #2 on: Saturday 25 June 11 11:35 BST (UK) »
Thanks so much Karenlee, this actually helps alot!

I was just reading of Familysearch which just gives names...

I know, you were one of the very people who helped me out so much with Ann Usher earlier: >Sorry link not working<

At her other daughter's marriage she's listed as a single woman... and on her christening as the wife of John Usher! What's going on here?

Also, she later called herself a retired servant/laundress - a step down from a gentleman?

Sorry for all this, I'm quite excited with the new prospects

Offline RogF

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Re: Thomas Fentiman, living in Clapham in 1805
« Reply #3 on: Sunday 26 June 11 10:38 BST (UK) »
Thomas Hyde FENTIMAN (1757 - ~1820) was a builder and lime merchant in Greenwich. In 1816 he married Mary LOAT; his brother John (1747 - 1820) was in partnership with Lancelot LOAT as land speculators, brick makers and builders, responsible for much of the East India Docks and Exeter Gaol, among much else.

Long before his marriage, Thomas had an affair with Anne USHER, resulting in the birth of an illegitimate daughter Patience USHER in 1804. Her paternity was the subject of a Poor Law examination in 1805 (Clapham p.25/TRI/1/22 Vol. 1789/1814), where Thomas was named as the father.

Lots more on this interesting family, especially the rather tempestuous John remembered in Fentiman Road, on request.

But: does anyone know where William (~1709 - 1796), father of John and Thomas, was born? I suspect the family came from Yorkshire, but I have no real data.

Roger Fentiman


Offline CV-S

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Re: Thomas Fentiman, living in Clapham in 1805
« Reply #4 on: Sunday 26 June 11 12:16 BST (UK) »
I really can't believe this!

All of my family on this side are labourers who left nothing but their names on documents but now this ancestor comes to light!
How interesting!
This is amazing, two days ago all I knew was that my ancestor Patience was the daughter of a single laundress. Now I know her father as well, it's just exciting.

You mention lots more info, could I please accept that kind offer?

If it is of any interest, Ann is quite interesting also, she lived to 101 but before Patience was born she's a mystery.

I will definately try to find more with this family and hopefully we can exchange our details

Are you descended?

Thank you so much Roger Fentiman

Offline RogF

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Re: Thomas Fentiman, living in Clapham in 1805
« Reply #5 on: Sunday 26 June 11 14:56 BST (UK) »
Hi

No, I'm not a descendant. My family name is unusual (less than 400 in the UK in 2002), so I'm involved in a one-name study. My best guess on the evidence at present is that there are two families with the name, one from Yorkshire probably descended from John, Fenton's man, who was steward for the Fenton family in Swillington, near Leeds, recorded in the poll tax records in 1379; the other descended from people who settled in Bedfordshire in the early 1500s, possibly Huguenot refugees (though the timings are a bit suspect). There may be only one family, but I have not found the links yet.

I am from the Bedfordshire line; I think the London family was from the Yorkshire line, though I haven't proved that yet. Certainly the family held property in Yorkshire, according to their wills. There was a John Fentiman, bricklayer, in York in 1723, who may be the John who was father of William and Isabella, but that is circumstantial evidence only.

By the way, the Fentiman Arms, as displayed outside the pub of that name in Fentiman Road, Vauxhall, aren't the Fentiman arms at all; they were appropriated from the KILLIGREW family, who were notable Devonshire sea-going people who included a famous lady pirate captain and a notable poetess. Isabella Fentiman married Captain George Augustus Killigrew, which did not transfer any right to the arms, but since the Killigrews are even thinner on the ground than Fentimans (68 in the UK in 2002), they seem not to have mounted an objection to the theft.

I'm happier transferring large amounts of data by e-mail than otherwise. Please send an e-mail to
roger.fentiman(AT-symbol)gmail.com for more.

Regards

Roger

Offline CV-S

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Re: Thomas Fentiman, living in Clapham in 1805
« Reply #6 on: Monday 27 June 11 10:50 BST (UK) »
Thanks again Roger, I have sent you an e-mail so hopefully you get it.

CV-S