The GREATBATCH'S of Stoke and Penkhull Staffordshire

[whiteKat]

I have a Great Great Grandmother by the name of Anne Greatbatch who - through researching the censuses - was born in the early 1800s around 1805 in Stoke Staffordshire.

Anne married Thomas Gover in 1829 at St Mary’s Church Chatham Kent - but no ages are given on the record. I found the actual Parish Record for the marriage on line – it was amazing. On the Marriage Record the witnesses are documented as Mary Ann Greatbatch and William Greatbatch.

I am trying to find Anne’s birth, parents and siblings. In doing so I found some Staffordshire Parish Records but only to 1813.

I have found an Ann Greatbatch born in Stoke 8 October and baptised 10 October 1805 with parents Daniel and Ann. I have a strong feeling this is my Ann.

What is confusing is the entry of other Greatbatch children all with parents Daniel and Ann but with some born in Stoke and others in Penkhull (who belongs to who?) These are the names I found:

1.   1802 – William baptised 2 April – parents Daniel and Ann – no place name but in same Parish Records.
2.   1803 – Harriet baptised 30 July – parents Daniel and Ann – of Penkhull
3.   1803 – Daniel baptised 4 September – parents Daniel and Ann – of Stoke
4.   1805 – Isaac baptised 2 February – parents Daniel and Ann – of Penkhull
5.   1805 – Ann born 8 October baptised 10 October – parents Daniel and Ann – of Stoke
6.   1806 – John born 2 October baptised 21 December – parents Daniel and Ann – of Penkhull
7.   1807 – John born December 22 baptised 22 February 1808 – parents Daniel and Ann – of Stoke
8.   1808 – Mary Ann born 17 April baptised 8 May – Daniel and Ann – of Stoke
9.   1810 – Daniel born 4 March baptised 13 May – Daniel and Ann – of Penkhull
10.   1810  - Isaac Greatbatch born 27 June baptised 12 August - Daniel and Ann – of Stoke
11.   1812 – Hannah Greatbatch born 29 February baptised 9 February – Daniel and Ann – of Penkhull

Possibly Mary Ann and William are Anne Greatbatch's siblings.

Can anyone help with my queries please:

Are Stoke and Penkhull the same or different areas Staffordshire in the 1800s – in looking at maps I am finding it hard to determine?

There obviously appears to be two families with Daniel and Ann as parents - as some babies are born within a few months of each other – can anyone shed any light on either Daniel or Ann?

Can I assume that those children born in Stoke are of the one family and those born in Penkhull are of the other family?

Would anyone have any information on the maiden names of either or both Ann’s - if in fact there are two?

Any information would be most gratefully received – thank you.

[MargP]

Hi

I have found a marriage record for a Daniel Greatbatch and a Ann Garner

15 Jan 1798
St Bartholomew Norton le Moors
Witness. William Greatbatch and Joseph Steel

Margp

[whiteKat]

Thank you ever so much Margp for your information. I have looked up the location of Norton le Moors - it appears to be in the right vicinity. I am new to these areas as I am in Australia - so it's a revealing journey for me.

The Daniel and Ann you found could well be possible parents to my Anne.

Your help is much appreciated.

whiteKat

[Zen rabbit]

Penkhull and Stoke are very close to each other. Penkhull is on top of the hill over looking Stoke and the Parish church for Penkhull was at Stoke. So your ancestors could easily have been on one of those border areas (say Honeywall) which were sometimes part of Stoke and sometimes part of Penkhull. Norton le Moors is further north on the other side of Burslem on the road to Brown Edge. I wouldn't rule it out though as they may have come from there anyway and there was also a practice of getting married outside of ones Parish in order to avoid having banns read in ones home parish. John Ward, in "The History of the borough of Stoke-upon-Trent" pub. 1830, goes on a bit of a rant about the practice.

[Zen rabbit]

"The Royal Manor of Penkhull" by Richard Talbot has this to say:
2 April 1803 Manorial court entry. Property now known as "The Views" "To this court comes Mary Terrick and Elizabeth Terrick both of Newcastle-u-Lyme, spinsters and surrender all that plot of land .. called Boyers Meadow....lately sold and surrendered by Mary and Elizabeth to William Hulse, together with full liberty for Daniel Greatbach, the purchaser of the said plot of land...To the use and behoof of the said Daniel Greatbach of Penkhull Engrave, fine 4d

Daniel Greatbach, self-employed engraver, is listed in the trade directory of 1822 as living at "the Views" off Penkhull New rd. Greatbach Avenue is named after him.

Daniel Greatbach paid £10 in support of the subscription to build a church in Penkhull in July 1840

These are just a few of the entries under Greatbach

[Zen rabbit]

I should have said that Penkhull New rd is pretty much halfway between Stoke and Penkhull and could have fallen under either parish.

[Zen rabbit]

I know yet another posting but there are 24 references to Greatbach in Richard's book and I keep finding extra bits.

Daniel Greatbach of "The Views' was one of the first church warders of St Thomas's Penkhull along with John Burgess of Elm Tree house.

In 1879 an Ellen Greatbach of 14 Penkhull new road ran a private school for girls.

Curiously a later entry on the views states that Daniel's occupation was as an upholsterer, which contradicts transcripts earlier in the book.
he is mentioned in the deeds to both number 1 & 2 the Views. There is a whole chapter on the views to large to include here but does make mention in detail of both Daniel senior and Daniel junior and mentions that the Views was next to the birthplace of famous physicist Oliver Lodge.

It states that Daniel Greatbach died in 1866 (it doesn't say whether senior or junior) but later says that his widow Mary died in 1898. At the time of Daniel's death the house(s) were occupied by by his mother and sisters, in addition they owned a further nine cottages in Penkhull

That's about the gist of all the information

[whiteKat]

Hello Zen rabbit
You are a gem  - so much information - thank you very much.

The explanation of the situation of Penkhull and Stoke is great - could I assume that on registering a birth that parents could either put down Penkhull or Stoke?

Would there be a Parish Church in Penkhull and in Stoke and does this Church or these Churches still exist? I may be going to the UK next year and I hope to explore these areas.

And so much information about the Daniel  of 'The Views' - amazing. I would love that Daniel to be mine - a lot of the information fits but I have a concern with the wife being Mary - the wife of the Daniel I am interested in is Ann. Thank you for the name of the book and the author - sounds fascinating.

On some censuses I have found a Daniel and Ann Greatbatch to be living in 'Commercial Road'. Could that road be significant to the Daniel of 'The Views'.

I really appreciate your effort and information.

Regards
Kate

[billramp]

Hi Kate

there are churches in both Stoke and Penkhull,
There has been a church on the stoke site since about 600, however the present church, St Peter ad Vincular, is now Stoke Minster and was built around 1827.
Penkhull Church was formed out of stoke parish and built in 1842.
The baptisms you mention would then have been at Stoke Church.
They are only a mile apart, and Commercial Rd Penkhull is now Penkhull New Road which ties in with Zen's Ellen Greatbatch.
This is the road which runs from Stoke to Penkhull.
Daniel (age 60) is listed in 1841 as an engraver and in 1851 as an earthenware engraver...the link to the potteries which were being built locally at that time.
I think Daniel , the upholsterer may be the Daniel age 31 who in 1841 is at High Street, Newcastle-under-Lyme another mile further up the road and the Daniel born 1810 on your list.

Penkhull New Road was called Commercial Road and Commercial Street  here is a link which gives a picture of it and the Commercial Inn at the bottom...

http://www.thepotteries.org/streets/stoke/club_st/index.htm

and another link with a brief history of the development of penkhull by Josiah Spode  of the famous Spode Pottery...perhaps Daniel snr was Spode's engraver?

http://www.thepotteries.org/walks/penkhull/j.htm

If I get chance over the next few days I will run (not literally.. it is very steep!) up Penkhull New Rd and see what houses are left

Bill