Gov. Sir Richard BOURKE help please

[Anderson]

Gov. Bourke arrived per "Margaret" in 1831. Does anyone know of any soldiers regiment who may have come out as his bodyguard's. The shipping record only mentions a handful of prominent passengers + steerage. There must be something written maybe not personal names but unit or something. I was in the Mitchell library yesterday and looked through Anne Bourke (Gov. wife) journal on the trip. Nothing mentioned other than day to day life on the trip. Trove show's "Margaret" arrived today & that's it.  Need some help please.

[majm]

Hi Anderson,

From trove 

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/32076404
3 December 1831 The Sydney Monitor

I note that this cutting lists Gov Bourke’s suite as Captain Westacott, ADC Captain Hunter, Military Secretary, The Rev G Innes and Dr Stephenson.   Perhaps the bodyguards were from the same regiment as either Captain Westacott or Captain Hunter.

When you were at the Mitchell, did you access the Governor's papers?

Cheers,  JM

Gov. Bourke arrived per "Margaret" in 1831. Does anyone know of any soldiers regiment who may have come out as his bodyguard's. The shipping record only mentions a handful of prominent passengers + steerage. There must be something written maybe not personal names but unit or something. I was in the Mitchell library yesterday and looked through Anne Bourke (Gov. wife) journal on the trip. Nothing mentioned other than day to day life on the trip. Trove show's "Margaret" arrived today & that's it. Need some help please.

[majm]

Hi there,

From trove's digitised newspapers, the main regiment in NSW in 1831-2 was the 39th Regiment of foot, and there's quite a few articles giving their history and the names of many of the officers stationed in NSW.  There are of course other regiments mentioned in other cuttings. 

What is the name of the chap you are seeking information about?

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi there,

The bodyguards landing in Sydney may have been rotated ....  perhaps some were already at either The Cape (of Good Hope, South Africa) or VDL...

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12843562  3 October 1831  The Sydney Herald

I'm not sure which regiment was stationed at The Cape in 1831, but I think this link will help with the VDL contingents...

http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~garter1/surnames3rv.htm

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi,

From this link http://members.pcug.org.au/~pdownes/keenan/keenan_reg_history.htm I notice that there's a book published in 1853 "Historical Record of the Thirty-Ninth, or Dorsetshire Regiment of Foot" by Richard Cannon, published in London in 1853

As an aside, I have an interest in the 48th regiment of foot, (served as garrison forces in NSW and VDL 1817-1824ish), some of the men and their families took their discharge during that time.... I have found the records at the Mitchell to be quite detailed once you know the particular regiment.

Cheers,  JM

[Anderson]

Hi
You type very well for a person as old as your profile. Congratulations and thanks for the reply. We live about the same distance south as you are north of Sydney. Getting back to the pain. I am looking for Patrick KINSELA was was appointed the 1st chief police constable for Queanbeyan in Jan 1838. We have 20 yrs of research on him from 1838 until his accidental death at Queanbeyan in 1841. But but but before that hmmmmm. What we do know is that on a land application dated 1838 & another 1840 (didn't go through with either)(nothing at NSW Land Titles Office) that Patrick applied for, on the bottom of one of the pages of the 1840 application. He states that I am free and arrived in the colony with the late Governor. I have been told that this would have been Gov. Bourke (the one before this one in 1840). Gov. Bourke arrived per "Margaret" in 1831. Trying to find Patrick coming into NSW and what he was doing from arriving (if 1831) until 1838 is the mystery. What makes it more difficult is that there was 4 other P.K's come into NSW prior in a abt 20yr period.
many thanks for any help on howwww to go forward or should I say backward.

[majm]

Hi Anderson,

  I think you mean that I type very well for someone who is not yet born .... My profile shows I am MINUS 889 years of age... 

I agree that it seems your chap arrived with Gov Bourke...  Gov Darling arrived 1825...  BUT .... Gov Bourke may have ventured out of Sydney by ship, and thus returned by ship.... Have you investigated that? Gov Bourke became quite an unpopular figure in many quarters as he was reforming the manner in which land was allocated... I think he was the one who introduced the "terra nullius" theory.

Do you have your Patrick Kinsela's likely dates please...

Some thoughts re the land applications not proceeding ...

  It may be that Gov Bourke followed a pattern inherited from both Brisbane and Darling of decling applications for land from "sub-ordinates" employed by the administration.   "Ordinates" eg Thomas Livingstone Mitchell were loaded up with land grants, but "sub-ordinates" were NOT permitted to obtain land... 

  Could your Patrick have been a "foreigner" ... one of my forebears was declined by Brisbane, because my forebear was born in Spain ... good enough to be directly responsible (as a stationary constable) for protecting ALL the CASH and bonds etc at the Treasury Offices, but because a "foreigner" not good enough to have land...

Cheers,  JM

PS, the SONS, born in Sydney in the 1820's got land, some settled out in the Western Divisions, BOURKE NSW !

[Rilla]

Just a thought - there's 7 years 1831 -1838 -could he have served time as a convict?  I note he states clearly that he is free in his first application for land! 
Rilla

[majm]

Hi there,

That’s a really good thought, definitely made me think !  .... result ... another long post from JM ...

Gov Ralph Darling arrived on the ship Catherine Stewart Forbes, into Sydney 19 Dec 1825. From trove, I read that ship brought out a strong detachment of Royal Staff Corps, and a detachment of the 40th Regiment of foot, along with 500 tons of Govt Stores, AND Colonial Coin of British Sterling denomination to replace the dollar system.   The names of those in the Royal Staff Corps and the 40th Regiment of foot are not mentioned.  (If Patrick was on that voyage, then there's some real interest in those details) .... See the following cuttings:
Gov Ralph Darling arrived on the Catherine Stewart Forbes AFTER calling into HOBART, VDL...  ...http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2184882  Sydney Gaz 19 Dec 1825
25 November 1825 Colonial Times and Tasmanian Advertiser http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/2446632

There’s also a convict whose seven years were completed in Jan 1827, and there’s many a convict who became a police constable  ...
There’s a Patrick Kinsela, arrived August 1820, on the Dorothy.    According to one index, he was then aged 31 (b circa 1789).  He had been tried at Dublin City 31 Dec 1819, (stealing lead)... C of F dated 4 January, 1827, number 004/5906 should include a good description of him and confirm his age, place of birth etc.  I mention this BECAUSE six of the 81 male convicts on that voyage were sent down to VDL per "Guildford" as assigned servants to George Espie on 16 October 1820.    Although I do note that Patrick Kinsela, ex the Dorothy is shown on a NSW General Muster of 1825 as being employed at Parramatta NSW.  If Patrick was one of those six convicts, sent to VDL, perhaps he came back to Sydney on the Catherine Stewart Forbes, with the Governor... (in which case, he MAY  NOT be the chap at Parramatta in the 1825 muster)

The appointment of Patrick Kinsela as a Constable at Queanbeyan dates from 1838, eleven years   after that C of F was issued.  http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/32158898  2 February 1838 Sydney Monitor

There was an inquest after Patrick Kinsela’s death at Queanbeyan in 1841.  Perhaps there’s a description of him or information about his birth, in those records.   
NSW State Records Office, online index  has references for his land application and the inquest and also C of F for Patrick Kinsela, ex the Dorothy.
http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx 
NSW Col Secretary’s papers 1788-1825 has information about the ship Dorothy and the dispersal of those convicts. http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/default.htm


Cheers,  JM