Author Topic: Victorian Census early 1900s  (Read 15188 times)

Offline majm

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #36 on: Thursday 23 June 11 07:39 BST (UK) »
Hi Yogi,

Thanks for your Thank You. 

Some thoughts

I am concerned though that you write that Emily and Jordan Pearson did not have children themselves.  If you are basing that view on Emily's d.c. then I have offered you a good explanation as to why that d.c. may not note any children of that marriage. 

The information on any BDM certificate is only ever as reliable as the informant's own knowledge.   As you already have a copy of the d.c. for Emily, would you please re-check and note the details on it in full, including those of the informant.  Information found on Vic certificates is perhaps amongst the most detailed in the world, and even the smallest clue may help you advance.   

While there are NO Census records that will help your search for Frederick,  the Victorian BDM records are often considered to be of more value in family history searchings for example than UK census records...  The basic tenets for family history research remain the same, however the Vic BDM documents are far more detailed than say a UK BDM document, so the focus should be on finding the Vic BDM records, and detailing all the information on them.  Rchatters familiar with the Vic records will then be able to offer advice as to further understanding those records.  Where some writing may be hard to read, then of course there is always the Decipher board at RChat where experienced people are willing to help.

Fostering/adoption records for that era are not readily available, as many fostering placements were informal and within family or extended family or benevolent friendly societies or lodges.   Recordkeeping of those informal arrangements was of much less significance than for instance in making sure the orphaned child was fed, clothed, sheltered and educated.   

Frederick Leslie Pearson did not need to state that his parents were dead on his AIF records, he was clearly over 21 years of age and was entitled to nominate any person as his n o k on his enlistment.  Many men did just that, nominating friends rather than living parents or living siblings.  Within my own forebears who enlisted, I have several examples where the n o k nominated was NOT the living relative of the enlistee, although the enlistee lived at home with both parents and younger siblings.   Thus it is possible that Frederick Leslie Pearson was born to Emily and Jordan, .... and of course it is also possible that he was not.  Perhaps they were his foster parents, BUT as Emily died when he was around 8 years of age, then he was most likely fostered out AGAIN ....  and that may have meant he would have enlisted under a different surname ...

I share:
A child born in 1881 was fostered into one of my family lines at age 8 months. 
The child died in 1898 and was buried with the fostering mother's family plot in a well known Cemetery in Australia.
The child's name is on the headstone.  It gives his full birth name and notes the names of his foster parents.
The d.c. confirms the details as found on the MI
The birth certificate shows the detailed of the birth parents. 
Further research found the early death of the mother
Further research showed the death of the father occurred many years after the death of the fostered child.
Further reading of private family papers in light of the d.c. of that birth father, explained the fostering of the child as a direct consequence of the lack of someone to be there for the children on six days out of seven as the father's work was not close to his home, and he was not keen on his own abilities to raise his children alone.


Cheers,  JM   
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
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Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
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Offline cando

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #37 on: Thursday 23 June 11 13:38 BST (UK) »
Perhaps others may have noticed the incorrect page in Frederick Leslie PEARSON's service file.

Frederick Lancelot PEARSON was a serviceman in WW1 born in SA and enlisted at Mitcham, SA and it is his page in Frederick Leslie PEARSON's file
Enlistment page
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=8014010&S=1&T=R
Page 3 of his file
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=8014010&S=3&T=R

Frederick Leslie PEARSON's file.
Enlistment page
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=8014011&S=1&T=R
Page 3 of Fred Leslie's
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=8014011&S=3&T=R


Perhaps the comment regarding Frederick's parents may have been because he did not nominate either parent as NOK.  The relationship with NOK is often noted.

The response to a request for a ticket by Mr J B Pearson states "you do not state the name of your son but we presume it is Frederick Leslie PEARSON"

This is the enlistment for the son of Mr J B Pearson of Portland
http://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/NAAMedia/ShowImage.asp?B=8014048&S=1&T=R
who also returned to Australia on the YPIRANGA

I also wonder if the initial for the NOK  Mrs W SIMPSON should be M SIMPSON.  Enrolled to vote at the address in the service file was a Mr Charles Thomas SIMPSON, Carpenter and Margaret SIMPSON HD.  Frederick was enrolled to vote at their address from 1919 until his marriage in 1926 and then lived only a few streets from them in Moonee Ponds.  Charles Thomas SIMPSON [born London] married Margaret DUNCAN in 1904.

However all of this does not find a birth for your Frederick Leslie PEARSON. There are registrations missing from the bdm's in Victoria and perhaps Frederick's is one of these.  There is also the possibility that his birth was never registered.

I wonder who are Emily MOYLE's parents on the 1878 marriage certificate?

Cheers
Cando


Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline sparrett

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #38 on: Thursday 23 June 11 23:34 BST (UK) »
Hi Cando
 In my Reply #11, I did try to further explore the Joseph John Bell PEARSON of Portland who is mentionedin the file as you say.


I also noted the SIMPSON connection (which you have expanded on) and added that J B  PEARSON's mother was a Mary SIMPSON.

This man did have another son at the front whose name was ALLAN HOLDICH PEARSON. His file is digitised too.

He was born about 10 years before FREDERICK (allegedly) and was returned to Australia via ship KHYBER not YPIRANGA.

This leaves even further scope for confusion in the file!


Sue

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Offline cando

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #39 on: Friday 24 June 11 00:54 BST (UK) »
Hi Sue...it was your mention of JB PEARSON that caused me to search further :) 

I think it would be interesting to compare the signatures of the Emily MOYLE on her marriage certificate in 1878 and Emma CONWAY nee MOYLE on her marriage in 1887 along with the names of her parents.  I have long ceased to believe everything that is on certs but signatures of similar characteristics can be as they say, 'a dead give away'.

Cheers
Cando

Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk


Offline majm

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #40 on: Friday 24 June 11 01:49 BST (UK) »
Yes,  I agree that checking those signatures can be a "dead give away" on those m.c.s,  and I take my hat off to the fantastic work of the RChatter volunteers on that decipher board.

I believe the information on m.c. is often far more reliable than d.c.s,  afterall the m.c. is information given "first hand" directly by the participating bride and the groom, hopefully at a time of happiness for the couple, while information on a d.c. simply cannot be "first hand", and if given by a family member then it is given at a time of grief.  Of course, if given by hospital staff it is based on their records of information given orally by either the patient or a family member, both of whom would be far more concerned about the patient's well being than in the formal admission papers.   I have always understood that the information given was NOT checked before being entered on the papers to register the d.c.   It is simply information given "in good faith" and recorded as such. 

I too am aware of missing or misplaced BDM records/registrations, not just in Victoria, nor just in Australia.       


And the AIF file does seem to include more than one chap's records, 


If I were YOGI, I would be contacting the National Archives of Australia to ask for further clarification as to the apparent confusion between TWO chaps, one with service number 3095 (Frederick Leslie P aged 22) and one named Frederick Lancelot, enlisted at aged 20 years 6 months. (number 3032) Frederick Lancelot P’s paperwork IS digitised. It could be that some further pages in Frederick Leslie P’s files are also NOT for him.

It is possible that the NAA would need to involve archivists at the  AWM and/or the DoD, however, those records deserve to be sorted back into each chap's correct folder.  Perhaps others have already contacted NAA, for it is likely the re-sorting would take some time to organise.

A further look at that file now after reading these recent posts at RChat leads me to think there may be more than two chaps papers in Frederick Leslie Pearson's folder.   

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline yogi

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #41 on: Friday 24 June 11 06:51 BST (UK) »
Hi Cando, thanks for your help but I do not think Frederick Lancelot PEARSON is the one I am looking for.  Frederick Leslie PEARSON was 5'10" and did not have a tattoo.I will keep looking. kind regards, Yogi.

Offline majm

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #42 on: Friday 24 June 11 06:58 BST (UK) »
Hi Yogi,

Have you contacted the National Archives of Australia to ask for them to sort out your Frederick Leslie Pearson's file?

Cheers,  JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
I do not have a face book or a twitter account.

Offline yogi

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #43 on: Friday 24 June 11 07:05 BST (UK) »
Thank you JM once again, I will apply for the marriage certificate for Emily Moyle/Conway and contact the National Archives,for clarification on the Army Records, I will keep searching.

King regards, Yogi.

Offline cando

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Re: Victorian Census early 1900s
« Reply #44 on: Friday 24 June 11 07:16 BST (UK) »
Hi Cando, thanks for your help but I do not think Frederick Lancelot PEARSON is the one I am looking for.  Frederick Leslie PEARSON was 5'10" and did not have a tattoo.I will keep looking. kind regards, Yogi.

At no time did I mention that Frederick Lancelot PEARSON was the person you were seeking. I was drawing attention to the fact that his page is in Frederick Leslie's service record.

Cando
Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk