Landed Estates Court Notices

[message2theresa]

Hello,
I came across this newspaper notice;

"In the matter of the estate of Frances Maunsell and another, Trustees of Frances Maria French, deceased. Owners and Petitioners.
To be sold in one lot before the hon. Judge Dobbs at the Landed Estates Court, Inns Quay in the city of Dublin, on Friday the 17th day of May 1867."

Frances Maria French my 5 x GGrandmother died 11 June 1864, 6 years after her husband in 1858. This notice refers to the property of Barnaboy which  listed Patrick French as a landlord in the Griffith's Valuation in 1847. I ordered the will for Patrick French assuming it would bequeath the property to his wife however apparently no will exists...

Both Frances and Patrick French are buried in common graves in Mt Jerome Cemetery suggesting that they were paupers which contradicts any idea of property ownership.

And yet they id have a daughter Frances who married William Hare Maunsell (becoming I presume the Frances Maunsell of this notice) who appears to have been a trustee of this estate...However there was a surviving son Arthur St George French.. Why wouldn't he have inherited over his sister??

Iam confused.. Can anyone shed any light on why Patrick would have had no will and yet his daughter is a trustee for an estate 3 years after her mother's death. I a wonderinf if it is worthwhile to order the will for Frances French although I am now uncertain.
Cheers Theresa French

[shanew147]

....
I ordered the will for Patrick French assuming it would bequeath the property to his wife however apparently no will exists...
.....
Iam confused.. Can anyone shed any light on why Patrick would have had no will and yet his daughter is a trustee for an estate 3 years after her mother's death. I a wonderinf if it is worthwhile to order the will for Frances French although I am now uncertain.
.....

Very few pre-1922 Wills survive, so the fact that one for Patrick cannot be found does not mean there never was one.

Many of the references to Wills are just indexes and calendars, and the actual wills no longer exist. Some of the older Wills survive only in part or in abstract form.


Shane

[message2theresa]

Thank you for your reply.

The fact that they have been buried in common graves has me wondering about their financial status.

Would three years after the death be a normal time for an estate to be settled?

[Quaxer]

Message 2 Theresa

Some points:
1)When raising questions please give full details and do not be vague
2) Give the name and date of the newspaper notice.
3) Where is Barnaboy?
4) Have you checked the Registry of Deeds?
5) Have you checked the Irish Calendar of Wills 1859--  ?
Regards

Quaxer

[message2theresa]

Apologies..

The property Barnaboy is in Co. Clare, Tyrone, Galway, Ireland. It is listed in Griffith's valuation 1857 as 299 acres with 7 tenants. Patrick French is recorded as the landlord.

After finding that Patrick and Frances French are buried in Mt Jerome Cemetery Dublin in common graves I considered the possibility that the property in question at Barnaboy was owned by a different Patrick French.

However the reason that I believe there is a link to my family is that my Patrick French's widow Frances Maria nee Richardson is mentioned in the Landed Estates Notices in the Freeman's Journal and Commercial Advertiser on ? Mar 1867 (3 years after her death 11 June 1864). The newspaper notice   indicates that the trustees of the estate are "Frances Maria Maunsell and another."

Patrick's and Frances nee Richardson had a daughter Frances Maria French who married William Hare Maunsell in 1838. I originally thought the Frances Maria Maunsell in the notice was this lady however I have since found a record of her death in 1847 making it more likely that it is actually refers to her daughter Frances Maria Maunsell born 1841.

I have checked the will documents I have access to and found nothing so far.

[aghadowey]

The property Barnaboy is in Co. Clare, Tyrone, Galway, Ireland. It is listed in Griffith's valuation 1857 as 299 acres with 7 tenants. Patrick French is recorded as the landlord.

Clare, Tyrone and Galway are separate counties. There are 9 Barnaboy townlands listed at www.thecore.com/seanruad, four of which are in Co. Galway (none showing for Clare or Tyrone).

[shanew147]

The townland in question appears to be the Barnaboy in the barony of Clare, civil parish of Athenry. This particular Patrick holds most of the townland  of the townland in fee, the total area of which is just over 299 acres


Shane

[aghadowey]

Just found a mention in our newspaper for a Tyrone House, Co. Galway and when I googled that lots of details came up including this website which mentioned the French family-
http://www.landedestates.ie/LandedEstates/jsp/estate-show.jsp?id=784