Birth place info on 1830s forms etc

[Paul76]

My 3x great grandfather William McKenzie moved to Wigan from Scotland in (I think) the mid-1830s.
Frustratingly he only gives his place of birth as "Scotland", never anything more precise. But another Roots Chatter has found records of a William born north of the border who could be my William.
Now I have to try to establish a connection.
Does anyone know if any documents of the time would have demanded a more exact place of birth than the census did?
He ran the Red Lion pub on The Weind in Wigan town centre and was a stone mason employing seven men at the time of the 1851 census, so surely he must have left a paper trail of some kind... mustn't he?
My other thought is that as he was living somewhere in Upholland at the time of his marriage in 1836 would house deeds be available to view?
Thanks for reading, all information gratefully received.
Paul

[carol8353]

I don't know about records that would show where he was born,but do you have his marriage cert to Anne?

It should show his father's name and maybe a clue as to where he was from.
I'm guessing his dad maybe called John as his oldest son in 1851 is John.

Carol

[Paul76]

Hi, thanks.
William married pre-certificates, I'm afraid, so no clue there.
I've seen the record of his marriage, he and his wife both live in Upholland but they don't give a precise address.
The potential father in Scotland is called John but I don't want to get carried away until I can find something linking the William in Upholland/Wigan with that family in Scotland.

[carol8353]

That's a shame. I just realised that must be the case when I found the family in 1841 as McKensie in Wigan...........John is 4 and Ann just a babe.

If they survived to later censuses sometimes you get more info,but I'm presuming not?

Carol

[Huckleberry]

More info for followers of the thread

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Search/indexp.html

Marriage: 20 Jun 1836 St Thomas the Martyr, Upholland, Lancashire, England
William McKinzee - Bachelor of This Parish
Anne Cowley - (X), Spinster of This Parish
    Witness: Frederick Walker; Jas Lindsay
    Married by Banns by: Rev. W. Bird Curate
    Register: Marriages 1813 - 1837, Page 131, Entry 393
    Source: LDS Film 1657546

Their daughter Ann (as per 1841 census detail):

http://www.lancashirebmd.org.uk/cgi/birthind.cgi
MAKENZIE  Ann
 Mums maiden name COWLEY, 1841. Wigan & Leigh

[carol8353]

What a shame that he didn't get one of his brothers to come down and be a witness 

Carol

[KGarrad]

I see that, according to the 1851 census, William was a Victualler.

Maybe there are court records (licence applications?)


1851 census: Reference HO107, Piece 2199, Folio 885, Page 6
Wiend Red Lion, Wigan

McKenzie, William  Head  M  37  Victualler  b Scotland
McKenzie, Anna, Wife  F  32  b Wigan
McKenzie, John  Son  M  13  b Wigan
McKenzie, Anne  Daughter  F  10  b Wigan
McKenzie, Elizabeth  Daughter  F  7  b Wigan
McKenzie, Janet  Daughter  F  5  b Wigan
McKenzie, William  Son  M  2  b Wigan



John is married in 1861, in Wigan, and it looks like his brother William is with him.
Janet is a boarder in St Helens.
Elizabeth is a servant in Wigan.

Possibly father William dies in 1858?
March qtr 1858
Wigan district    vol 8c, page 14
McKenzie, William

[Paul76]

Yes, he died in January 1858 and is buried in an unmarked grave in Lower Ince cemetery.
Who would have the record of his license and does anyone know what information that would hold?

[mmm67]

paul 76 ............. william mckenzie is my 4x grandad how can i get intouch with you?