Sisters? Florence and Rose Smith in Salford, UNSOLVED

[Ruth1973]

it's been suggested it might be a tricky one due to a very commen name!
I've found a few possibilities of birrhs so will have a look on ancestry for any possibilities.

[Lord V.]

That's interesting, I didn't know that!
I have a photo which has Angel St on the back.  I recognised Angel St when it was  just mentioned on here and tried to remember where I saw it.  I've just looked at the photos my famly sent me and one has "Rose and kate at The Angel House, Manchester " on the back of it.  The photo was taken in approx 1933 and is of William's daughter / niece Rose and Florence's daughter Kathleen so I wonder if they had family living there still, from William's side.
Suddenly a photo has made your search results likely!

Angel street was part of Angel meadows area and was one of the very poorest parts of Manchester with a big Irish community as did Ancoats.
You can check some of the records on line for around these areas.
I spotted two baptiums with close to your Florence & Rose Ann Smith on there.

http://www.mlfhs.org.uk/data/catholic_search.php

Also st. Chad's church is a two min walk from Angel street.

http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/LAN/Cheetham/StChad.shtml

You can read a little about the area on these links

http://www.lhi.org.uk/docs/St_Michaels_flags.pdf

http://www.mangeogsoc.org.uk/egm/3_2.pdf

[Ruth1973]

Oh thats interesting, thanks.
I spoke to my mum last night and she said that she was told by her mum (kate) of Granny Smith who was a sister of William Smith.

Granny Smith lived in the area in the 1920's and often spent time with Florence and Rose.
It has been suggested that she might have been their mum,  What Granny Smith's first name is not known.

There is also a suggestion that the parent of the two girls was in prison and that is why the girls were being looked after by family for most of their young years.

This is pure family rumours and speculation though so I don't know what parts of it are true.

[Ruth1973]

back to this one again, my permanent brick wall!

Their daughter / niece Florence was born on 11 Aug which her grandaughter (my mum) says is definately correct as they share the same birthday.
cencus records suggested 1888 and I don't think I have confimed whether it was definately 1887 (like the result on genuki seems to suggest) or 1888.

I still think they are all related but adopted?
One result on familysearchorg also suggest 25 aug 1887, nothing for 1888 giving father name as John smith which is identical to a tree on ancestry but they have presumed it is right but not confirmed for definate so I'm loathe to take it as correct.

over a year gone and I'm still trying to solve this one!

[Ruth1973]

Soory to drag up an old thread of mine but I am about to try again to purchase the birth certificate for Florence.  Can anyone help me identifiy it so that I can send off for it.

I know I was told of this somewhere else but I can't find it!

These are the rough dates of birth for each sister
Florence Smith 1888 Salford
Rose Ann Smith 1891 Salford

Thanks

[wrjones]

Hi, can anyone do a record look up for me for two sisters (at least we think they are sisters) or shed any light on my mystery?

The details are:
sister 1: Florence (Florrie) Smith
born in July / Aug / Sept 1888, Salford
parents William Henry Smith (b 1861) and Rose Anne Smith (b 1868)
As further info Florence married Patrick Pounder on 5 Aug 1916 at St Cuthberts, Withington, Chorlton, Lancashire,

sister 2: Rose Anne Smith
born about 6th April 1891 in Salford
parents probably same as Florence.
Rose married Alex McKenna

I have a detailed thread about them here which goes into how they must be related as their daughters and grand daughters look alike but Florence mentioned to her husband that Rose and her were adopted and on one cencus (1901) it states they are the niece of William so we think William had a brother or sister who was the parents.

We also know that a family story passed down was that two Smith brothers wanted to adopt a child each but the local authorituies wanted the two girls to stay together. local authorities.

Link to my original thread about them:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,491814.msg3493596.html#msg3493596

Any help would be greatfully appreciated!

This is the birth of the Florence Smith you referred to.Jul/Aug/Sep quarter 1888,Salford District Lancashire-Volume 8d,Page 86.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Ruth1973]

thanks for that.  I just needed the last bit which I couldn't remember if I had it!

[Ruth1973]

Ok, so I now have Florence's birth certificate and its caused me even more confusion.

Details are:
birth Seventh June 1888 at 2 Richmond Terrace, Salford
Father: John Smith, Labourer
Mother: Fanny Smith formally Suckling (or Buckling?)

on the signature, description box it says: x The mark of Fanny Smith mother, 2 Richmond Terrace, Salford
Registered nineteenth July 1888

I don't have Rose's birth cert yet but all I have now are new questions and no answers and how does John Smith fit with William.  Were they brothers?

[Ruth1973]

Also the birth date of Florence is in June which doesn't match what her grandaughter, my mum,  said she was told ber her mum what is was being on Aug 11th.