Sisters? Florence and Rose Smith in Salford, UNSOLVED

[Ruth1973]

Hi, can anyone do a record look up for me for two sisters (at least we think they are sisters) or shed any light on my mystery?

The details are:
sister 1: Florence (Florrie) Smith
born in July / Aug / Sept 1888, Salford
parents William Henry Smith (b 1861) and Rose Anne Smith (b 1868)
As further info Florence married Patrick Pounder on 5 Aug 1916 at St Cuthberts, Withington, Chorlton, Lancashire,

sister 2: Rose Anne Smith
born about 6th April 1891 in Salford
parents probably same as Florence.
Rose married Alex McKenna

I have a detailed thread about them here which goes into how they must be related as their daughters and grand daughters look alike but Florence mentioned to her husband that Rose and her were adopted and on one cencus (1901) it states they are the niece of William so we think William had a brother or sister who was the parents.

We also know that a family story passed down was that two Smith brothers wanted to adopt a child each but the local authorituies wanted the two girls to stay together. local authorities.

Link to my original thread about them:
http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,491814.msg3493596.html#msg3493596

Any help would be greatfully appreciated!

[Ruth1973]

also I know where the two women are buried and have their date of death.
They are in the same grave as their mum (aunt?)  Rose Anne Smith in Southern Cemetary, Manchester.

[Lord V.]

The family grave in Southern cemetery details.
Roman catholic section grave number:   i849
Rose Ann Smith
Buried 5/4/1939 age 74 widow
residing at 18 Anson road, Burnage Manchester

Florence Pounder
Buried 22/11/1943 age 55 married
residing 25 Fortina grove, Rusholme Manchester

Alexander McKenna
Buried 15/11/1960 age 72 retiered
residing 45 ST. Margaret Avenue, Burnage Manchester

Rose Ann McKenna
Buried 16/9/1965 age 74 Widow
residing 45 ST. Maragret Avenue, Burnage Manchester

1927 directory has Joseph Patrick Pounder
4 ST. Margaret Avenue, Levenshulme Manchester.
Warehouseman
It also show Alexander McKenna at the 45 ST. Margaret Avenue, Levenshulme Manchester.

[Ruth1973]

thank you, that gives me more details than what I had so very much appreciated.

These two girls are a bit tricky!

The story is that they were William's nieces so could be  either a sister or brother  We though sister as the two brothers wanted to adopt one child each but the local authority did not allow this and William took the 2nd child in as well.

[Lord V.]

If they were formally adopted and you have a close family contact, could they not apply to see there records? I am not well up on adoptions but didn't think there was any formal adoptions befor mid 1920's?
It is that birth surname that might give you the biggest problem in locating any records befor they were adopted or finding them in any Roman Catholic home?

[Ruth1973]

hiya, we don'tknow for definate if they were adopted.
florence is the mother of Kate (my grandmother) and she told her husband Patrick and her daughter Kate that she (Florence) and her sister Rose were adopted.  She said she remembered being in an orphanage for a short while.

My nana Kate has since passed away so I can't get any more info and my mum only knows what I know.

Florence's sister Rose never said anything ever.  I don't think anyone ever spoke about it then from what I have been told.

As each child and grandchild of each sister got back in touch more often only then did my nana and mum  query this with Rose's grandchildren and this was when the doubts came as to whether they were actually blood sisters or not. 

We are pretty certain now that  they must be blood related as Florence's daughter (nNana Kate) and grand daughter (my mum) are the spitting image of Rose's granddaughter who we are in regualar contact with and I really do mean a very strong resemblance.

[wrjones]

They are both given as nieces of William and Rose in 1901 whereas Florence is given as a daughter in 1891.

Regards
William Russell Jones.

[Ruth1973]

yes and that's why we think that the vague passed down family  story of them both being the children of a sibling of William must be true.  The other part is that we do know is that William had at least one brother (no idea of name)who wanted to adopt one child.

The question also is was it another brother or a sister of William Henry Smith that are the parents of either just Rose (or both girls.  Its confusing that on one cencus Florence is William's daughter then on the next one she is his niece!

I haven't found much out about anything of William's side of the family except that we know he had at least one brother.

[wrjones]

I'm just making sure I have the right family?Was William Henry Smith the son of a Bridget Smith born in Ireland?If so this Bridget was fairly flexible in stating her children's birthplaces and her own age!

Regards
William Russell Jones.