Lighterman

[mrsspen]

I'm stuck trying to trace an ancestor and his wife. Scrutinising their marriage certificate shows his father as being a lighterman, deceased. I know that Lightermen of the Thames were licensed etc and so this is a small shred of something to widen my search. But looking at the Lighterman website shows that I'd need to know his D.O.B etc and I don't as census' etc are throwing nothing up.

His name was William Warren, the son (who I can find limited info on) was also William Warren, you see why it gets confusing. All I have to go on is that William Warren junior was born in Rotherhithe, and by the time he married in 1892 (to Elizabeth Walker) in Deptford. William Warren Snr : Lighterman was deceased. If I buy the CD with records on it, am I going to be able to trace a lighterman from such tiny information? The names are all so common that searches just reveal thousands of hits all the time.

Can anyone offer me any advice?

[patrish]

Was there any indication of his age on the marriage certificate 

Could this be him and Elizabeth in 1901  Living St Pauls Deptford

RG13; Piece: 529; Folio: 170; Page: 18.

William Warren    29 h.m. General Lab b London Rotherhithe
Elizabeth Warren wife    27 b Plumstead
Daisey E Warren    11
Rebecca L Warren    9
Alice F Warren    7
William C Warren    5
Alfred R Warren    1 Month  all children born Deptford.

If so this indicates that he was born 1871/2


   

[Hackstaple]

There used to be a site where you could search the 1881 census by occupation. I can no longer find it.

If you can find it put in William Warren b.1849+-5, London, lighterman.

[mrsspen]

Pattrish, sorry its my fault as too many names the same and it gets confusing. Yes you have found the right family. William C Warren the child listed is my great grandad. You have found the son and Elizabeth, on their marriage certificate it shows his father as a lighterman. Its him I want to trace if I can as its my only real link to be able to push the generations back.

I think findmypast allows you to search by occupation doesnt it? I found the same census entry for the family as listed in the replies and can find them again in 1911, but I cant really get the warren line further back and as Warren is my maiden name its this line I am so keen to trace the most. The lighterman link seems to be my only hope of getting more info on William Warren senior to trace. Any further ideas?

[patrish]

Something I think you should bear in mind, is that Wm Warren junior might have been illegitimate if no birth with a father also Wm can be found.

It was a common practice  to falsify fathers name and occupations on marriage certificates so not to appear so. 

I am not suggesting this is the case here, at this stage we don't know.

I looked at the 1901 just to get some idea of Wm juniors DOB as that helps when searching the BMD indexs

[california dreamin]

Hi Mrsspen

A quick search for 1891 William Warren reveals:
RG12 Piece 498 Folio 75 Page 66

William  20 labourer b. Rotherhithe
Martha 79 b. Plumstead
Daisey 14 b. Deptford

I think this is your family oddly enumerated!  I think the "79" is an oddly written 19 although the name clearly says Martha and not Elizabeth, but I'm not sure how they made Daisey 14 perhaps that should read 14 mths? 

Although your marriage cert calls Wm Sr. a "lighterman" perhaps they were just trying to upgrade his profession a bit.  I have seen this myself in my own family or perhaps he became a lighterman later in life?  My gut feeling is the first.  I think you may need to get some maps out and look at where these people lived and see if you can identify the nearest possible churches and start looking at some parishes registers if you feel you want to go back further than William Sr. (do you have an LDS library near you?)  See if you can find William Sr marriage and move on from there.

 

[patrish]

You could be right about Daisy, there is a Daisy Florence Warren March q. 1888 Greenwich (reg dist for Deptford) 1d - 1038

In trying to narrow down the birth reg of Wm junior there is a Wm Robert Warren March q 1870 St Olave  1d - 276 ( Rotherhithe was a parish or Township within that reg dist)

 Worth noting  down as you need to find that to ascertain his father.

[mrsspen]

Thank you so much for the replies, I think you have indeed found them but I wonder why she is listed as Martha. I just double checked the certificates/census' that I do have to be certain.

My great grandad shows his parents as William Warren( Labourer) and his mother Elizabeth Warren nee Walker. He was born in 1896. Deptford Greenwich.

I then search for the marriage of William and Elizabeth, they were married at st johns deptford in 1892. She is listed as Elizabeth walker and him william warren. fathers William warren lighterman and Hers, charles walker carpenter.

On the 1911 census, its states they have been married for 22 years and that Daisey is 21. If daisey is 21 then she would have been born 1890, so I assume they are lying about when they got married as she appears to have already been born. He states he was born in deptford but previous census says Rotherhithe, she states plumstead so it appears that she is possibly Martha.

I will try the church registers as suggested...getting more flumoxed. As family folklore states that he was a well to do oil refiner too but the certificates show his "mark" rather than writing so I assume he wasnt so well to do although the certificates show labourer and the 1911 census shows oil refiner. But i'm certain im looking at the right certificates etc.

[patrish]

You can never believe family legends as they are so often wrong when passed down from generation to generation, same with the  census's and certificates unless you have proved it yourself.