Christian names only?

[Essie]

TEDED, what does the 1922 death certificate for Margaret UPTON nee Connolly mention of children living or deceased?

Essie

[TEDED]

Alice was 57 years old and still alive when her mother died in Feb. 1922. It only gives the name "Alice" on the death certificate. My father would have been just over 9 years old in Feb.  1922  but I never heard him  ever talk about his grandparents or for that matter, my grandparents mentioning their mother and mother-in-law. At this stage, no photo with names, or letters, or anything else with a mention of Alice Eleanor (or Helena) has been found or traced. It's just a big black hole. TEDED

[majm]

Hi.

So you are looking for a possible marriage in rural NSW 1907at earliest to find a new surname to then find a d.c.


NSWBDM online explains that the process of reconciling marriage records has NOT been completed.....  Does the earlier cert seem to have blanks or does it show it was reconciled 1912 or later........  what denomination..... which church at Temora ...... have you contacted that church to see if 2nd marriage was also there or to ask for the details missing from first crt...

Cheers  JM

[TEDED]

Alice and Daniel married in the Prebyterian chuch at Temora on 1-12-1883. They had 5 children, the eldest being my grandmother, who was born at Barmedman NSW, which is 36km north of Temora. The next daughter was born 15 months later, in Victoria. They had 3 more children, all born in different places in Victoria. The last 3 children died as small infants, and are all buried with their father's mother and family in Coburg Vic. cemetery. So, Victoria seems to be more prominent than NSW. I'm expecting copies of old family photos today and hopefully, any clues that may be written on the back of them. TEDED

[majm]

Hi,

Alice and Daniel's 1883 m.c. at Temora Presbyterian .... do you have that m.c. and is it complete?  ie, does that document give you the names and occupations of their parents including nee names?  I asked this NOT to question who their parents were, but to establish IF the NSW BDM reconciled that 1883 marriage entry with the parish records which should have been submitted to NSWBDM in around 1912. 

http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm

From 1912 Reconciliation made between Registry and Church records.
158 Volumes of Early Church Records created with approximately 50,000 records.
Registry requests access to the 1856 to 1895 church marriage registers.
 
Present day The task of reconciling the Church Records for marriages between 1856 and 1895 was never finalised. Some of the Registry's marriage records from these years still have missing information.  

Have you considered the 1908 marriage registered at Young NSW between an Alice SCOTT and Samuel E Richardson (NSW BDM ref 6579

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

Hi,

Apart from that Alice Scott marriage in 1908 registered at Young NSW

Have you also considered the following marriages around that time for ladies named Alice SCOTT
to Jno Gillen registered in Victoria in 1909  # 5822
to Jno Gillin reg. Victoria in 1909 # 5822R  (probably same as above, showing alteration to surname)

Question:

On the m.c. for any of Alice's children .... does it show Alice's surname as SCOTT, nee UPTON ?  It would be usual for all Alice's surnames to be included in her names on a m.c. for her children, thus if you have know which child was last to marry in either Vic or NSW, you could get that cert and see what Alice's names were recorded there ...  eg Alice "SMITH", formerly/laterly SCOTT, nee UPTON .... ("SMITH" of course just being an example).  It should also note if any parents of the bride and groom were deceased, and of course the names of witnesses who may well have been family members. 

Cheers,  JM

[TEDED]

I couldn't get the marriage certificate for Daniel & Alice up for you. I can assure you that all the details match up. Even the 2 witnesses are the step-brother and step-sister of the groom. My grandmother (Martha Margaret, the eldest daughter of Daniel and Alice) was the only one of the 5 siblings to get married. The full names: Daniel McBride Scott (deceased) & Alice Eleanor Scott(nee Upton) is shown on my grandmother's wedding certificate as parents.  TEDED

[majm]

Hi there,

From Daniel and Alice's m.c. does it show on the far right that the information re their parents was added to the NSW BDM registrar's records in 1912 or thereabouts? (only to confirm that this had been reconciled, and thus the information about their parents was added to the NSW BDM registrar's records some 30 years later)

From your Grandmother's m.c. it shows Daniel as deceased and that Alice was therefore alive at that time, and was known as Mrs Scott.   So from that, it would be sensible to consider searching for her death at sometime after the marriage of your Grandparents and under the surname SCOTT.    The information on m.c. is based on information given by the bride and the groom to the clergy.  Its accuracy was not checked by the clergy, but the bride and groom give the information in good faith.  (edit to add, and as the father was deceased, the clergy should have asked if the mother had re-married ... and that new surname should have been noted on the m.c.)

Where and when were your grandparents married?  Is it likely that Alice would have attended the wedding, and perhaps lived with the couple after that marriage ....  Have you found your grandparents on the electoral rolls? Have you then looked at those rolls to see if any others were at that same address or nearby?  (a difficult task, as Australian rolls as by surname and not by address at various online commercial sites). 

Cheers,  JM

[TEDED]

In reply to majm. Thanks for all your suggestions. As previously mentioned, Alice is noted as alive, age 57, on her mother's Feb. 1922 death certificate. My grandparents got married at Kellyville (near Riverstone) NSW. My grandfather was working in the copper mines at Cobar NSW at the time. My grandmother, I'm led to believe, was working in a hotel or boarding house at Nymagee (about 100km south of Cobar) when she met my grandfather. The place where she was working was owned by a relative (unknown). My grandparents first lived at Wrightsville, Cobar in a little wood cabin. Their 2 sons (my dad was the younger) were born there. All moved to Auburn in Sydney when the mines shut down around 1915-20. They then moved to 28 Adelaide St. Belmore within a year or so as my dad went to Belmore primary school and Canterbury Boys High School. It was only a 2 bedroom house at Belmore and there was never any mention of any relative living there. My grandmother died in 1962 and the house was sold after my granfather's death in 1969. It's so strange that there is no witten or photographic records of Alice (& her 1st. husband Daniel McBride Scott). There is no evidence that she remarried but an old family relative (on my mother's side) thinks Alice may have remarried and had a daughter. I hope that this explains the history and mystery of the case. TEDED