Shoreditch address look up please

[kennyb]

Well done again Mort.
                                    I'm looking on Find My Past but found nothing,ancestry appears to have better info. Do you think you could look up the 1851 for Edward Beasley for me? I think he would be a youngster so still with his family.I've had no luck on FindMyPast.
                                                        Ken. 

[Mort29]

Was going to do that earlier, but got waylaid.

Will have a look now.

(Can you not find them in FindMyPast using the RG12 reference?)


Update: The problem is that not finding him & seeing his actual age and PoB in the 1871 census, there is only his purported Father's name to try and ID him in 1861/51 or even 1841.

Theres no links like that countrywide 

I did wonder about a Thomas H Beasley - adopted son of an Eliza Glazier (Not Married) in MEOT. He was born c1849 in Stepney ...

RG9/Piece: 296 Folio: 133 Page: 29 - Mile End Old Town


2nd update: I think I found the Eliza in 1851 - there is a child in the family aged 2, but heavily scored over, looks like Thomas H B??    ???Child born Ratcliffe.

Have a look - HO107/Piece: 1552 Folio: 851 Page: 18 - Stepney, MEOT Upper


(cant post an image in this thread 

3rd update: Damnit, I think that Thomas has reverted to his mothers name of Glazier and by 1871 is married to an Eliza c1841 born Egham, Surrey - they have a 9 mon old Thomas.

RG10/Piece: 563 Folio: 46 Page: 30 - MEOT Eastern




Otherwise, try a new thread specifically asking about Thomas and Edward.

[kennyb]

Had a look at them, but can't see anything that makes me excited! I'll search around a bit more then perhaps put an 1851 thread on to see if anyone else can find him.  Still, you've got me of to a good start Mort,thanks again.

                                                                  Ken.

[Bryant]

Hello Ken

You have most of this but you will find something of interest if the Pinchion family as seen below in the 1861/1871 census is the correct one

Sarah Ann Pinchion (witness of 1867 marriage)....who is she?

1881 census
9 Ada Street, South Hackney, Hackney, Middx
Thomas Emmerton....head..34...safe maker.....Clerkenwell
Margaret........".........wife....32...fur sewer........Southwark, Surrey
William Bearsley....stepson.12..........................Hoxton, Middx
Amanda Emmerton..daur......7.............................."
Mary A. Emmerton...daur......5...........................Hackney
Thomas Emmerton....son......2...........................Hackney
--------------

1871
Europia Place, City Road, Holborn, Middx
Sarah Skinner.............head...58 (wid)...charing...................Shoreditch, Middx
Thomas Emmerton.......son....29 (unm)..iron safe maker..............."............"
----------

1861 census
8, Johns Place, St Luke, Finsbury, City Road, London, Middlesex
David Skinner....Head.....45.....Tailor.....................Holborn, Middlesex
Sarah......"........Wife......48....................................Shoreditch, Middlesex
Thomas Emmerton..Son In Law 19.. Porter At Cabinet Maker.. Clerkenwell, Middlesex
William Emmerton..Son In Law  17..Book Binder.....Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Frederic........"......Son In Law.....16...Stationer.......Clerkenwell, Middlesex
Ann............."...Daughter In Law 14 Mourning Flower Maker..Highgate, Middlesex
Susan............Daughter In Law ..13 Mourning Flower Maker..Highgate, Middlesex
-------------
 


Minni appears to be Margaret in the 1871 census, if correct it appears that William George "Besley" is not with mum even though he is only two years old! the 1881 clearly states that "Margaret" was born Southwark, Surrey.....a big difference from Dorking, Surrey....right County but chalk & cheese

1871 census
Albert Place, St Leonard Shoreditch, London, Middlesex
George Pinchion....Head.....50............................Chelmsford, Essex
Mary.........."...........Wife......49............................Dorking, Surrey
Thomas....."............Son......23.............................Chelmsford, Essex
Susan......."...........Daur......20.............................Shoreditch, Middlesex
Minni..........".........Daur.......21.............................Dorking, Surrey
Caroline....."........ Daur.......16.............................Shoreditch, Middlesex
Charles......"..........Son........14.............................Chelmsford, Essex
George......"..........Son........10.............................Chelmsford, Essex
Alice...........".........Daur.........6.............................Chelmsford, Essex
+ the Whitmore family
-------------

Marriages Dec 1867 
 
BARTON  Elizabeth    Bethnal Green  1c 613   
BEASLEY  Thomas     Bethnal Green  1c 613   
FERNE  Edward     Bethnal Green  1c 613   
Pinchion  Amanda     Bethnal Green  1c 613   
Married 25 Nov, 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green.
Thomas (bachelor) of full age, marked X: Father Edward - a Brickmaker
Amanda (Spinster) 18, marked X:Father George - a Labourer
both 'of Bethnal Green'

Witnesses - William Webb & Sarah Ann Pinchion (both 'X'ed' signature)
-----------

1861 census
Highwood, Writtle, Chelmsford, Essex
John G Pinchion....Head...40...Agricultural Labourer...Writtle, Essex
Mary A........."........Wife....39.......................................Dorking, Surrey
John............".........Son.....16......................................Whittle, Essex
Thomas.......".........Son.....14......................................Dorking, Surrey
Margaret.....".........Daur....11......................................Shore, Surrey
Caroline......".........Daur......6......................................Holford, Middlesex
Charles.......".........Son........4.....................................Writtle, Essex
George........".........Son.......2......................................Writtle, Essex
-----------

1851 census
1a, Feston Place, Islington, Finsbury, Middlesex
John Geo Pinchion...Head...30...Brickmaker........Writtle, Essex
Mary A............"........Wife....29............................Dorking, Surrey
John..............."........Son........6......Scholar..........Writtle, Essex
Thomas.........".........Son........4......Scholar...........Writtle, Essex
Margaret........."......Daur........1...........................Shire, Surrey
George Tremley...Visitor......23..Lab Iron Foundry...Dorking, Surrey
Thomas Apelby....Visitor...31...Brickmaker... Arrington, Warwickshire
William Ashwell....Visitor...15...Brickmaker... Shoreditch, Middlesex
-----------

1843
Mar qtr Chelmsford R.D, Essex
John George Pinchion married Mary Ann Renment
-----------

Bryant

[Bryant]

Following on.....for my info why I meander and look at possibilities

Besley in the census below...right name, right area of birth to know the Pinchion family and the right trade in so much as blacksmiths could well make safe's and Besley's with that spelling are few and far between....but doubtful connection

1861 census
High Street, Cobham, Surrey
Thomas Besley......Head...42......Ironmonger & Smith...Guildford, Surrey
Mary A........".........Wife.....44........................................St Elvis, Sussex
William........".........Son.....24....Tin Plate Worker..........Woking, Surrey
Ann E..........".........Daur....14.........................................Cobham, Surrey
John............".........Son.......4...........Scholar..................Cobham, Surrey
Henry..........".........Son.......9...........Scholar..................Cobham, Surrey
Mary A........"..........Daur......6..........Scholar..................Cobham, Surrey
George......."...........Son.......3.......................................Guildford, Surrey
Elizabeth A.."........Visitor...39 (unm).............................Guildford, Surrey
Emily Reading.......Visitor......5......................................Westminster, Middlesex
------------

Its a start ! (Apologies if you already have this detail)

Marriages Dec 1867 
 
BARTON  Elizabeth    Bethnal Green  1c 613   
BEASLEY  Thomas     Bethnal Green  1c 613   
FERNE  Edward     Bethnal Green  1c 613   
Pinchion  Amanda     Bethnal Green  1c 613   


Married 25 Nov, 1867 at St James the Great, Bethnal Green.

Thomas (bachelor) of full age, marked X: Father Edward - a Brickmaker
Amanda (Spinster) 18, marked X:Father George - a Labourer

both 'of Bethnal Green'

Witnesses - William Webb & Sarah Ann Pinchion (both 'X'ed' signature)


This looks like her Birth Index entry - no wonder she couldnt be found in Middx!

Margaret Amanda Pinchion
Registration - 4Q of 1849
Registration district of Guildford (Surrey)
Volume 4
Page 177 


A likely match in 1861 was born Surrey, Shere & has a Father John. G - the family are in Writtle Essex - altho there is a sibling born in Hoxton, so maybe a link.

RG9/Piece: 1080 Folio: 22 Page: 13

Looking back at the 1851 - HO107/Piece: 1502 Folio: 286 Page: 25 - in Islington, the fathers middle name was George .... and someone else has researched the name:-

Margaret Emmerton rather than Margt Pinchion
Second Married name
Submitted by  richardbazeley on 28/10/2007

Margaret Beasley rather than Margt Pinchion
First Married name
Submitted by  richardbazeley on 28/10/2007



cant find an Emmerton marriage in FreeBMD 

[Mort29]

Had a look at them, but can't see anything that makes me excited!

I was less excited too, after seeing that he changed (back) to Glazier for the 1871 census, and as presumably couldnt be in 2 places at once, was thus eliminated  ... but you never know!

As said, not being able to see the man who married Amanda on the 1871 census hampers the search, coupled with no obvious links to a Father Edward kinda dead-ends it for now (btw, its very common to fabricate a Father's name on your Marriage papers, esp if you were illegitimate)



Bryant - you've totally lost me there 

Apart from copying and pasting marriage details, and actually transcribing the Census entries I had referenced for the Pinchions - you then end up with an 1861 census entry for a Besley family in Chobham. 

Witness Sarah Ann Pinchion could be a sibling's wife, or an Aunt or similar, only detailed research will reveal this.

The 1871 showing an unmarried Minnie is interesting - right age, right Birth area, albeit not Shere as in other census  ... one can conjecture on this, and the missing child true - but until the child and or husband materialise, who knows?

Incidentally, re questioning the 'chalk & cheese' PoBs stated - have a look at Amanda/Margarets declared PoBs in later census!

What does it all mean we wonder? 

[Bryant]

Minni in the 1871 census appears to be Margaret in the 1861 census, if correct it appears that William George "Besley" is not with mum even though he is only two years old! the 1881 clearly states that "Margaret" was born Southwark, Surrey.....a big difference from Dorking, Surrey....right County but chalk & cheese

If the above is true? and the Pinchion family above is the correct one....
Margaret Amanda Pinchion has given the child William George "Besley" away as an infant and Thomas & Margaret Emmerton as seen in the 1881 census might be the step parents?

So if the birth cert is available for William...what was the mother's maiden name? or is that info within the post and i'm missing it?

Bryant

[Mort29]

Margaret Amanda Pinchion has given the child William George "Besley" away as an infant and Thomas & Margaret Emmerton as seen in the 1881 census might be the step parents?

That's certainly a possible scenario - but then again, would the 1881 relationship not be 'adopted son', rather than stepson? (Relationship to the head ... ) stepson implies that Margaret/Amanda is the mother.

But, whatever the Census 'states' (rather like her PoB of Southwark, and the other ones she uses later) it's only what was written on the Schedule, and as seen often, things can be completely different.

Rather than conjecture further in the absence of Mr B and William being found on the 1871 census, and no Marriage for Thomas Emmerton - lets see what the OP says about the Mother's Maiden name from the Birth Certificate he has ...

[Bryant]

I thought for some reason I saw reference to this marriage but now can't find it within the post....my imagination or has someone removed what they had written? anyway....

Freebmd.......Thomas Frederick Emmerton married Margaret Ann Pink in the Dec qtr of 1865 Lambeth R.D, Surrey

Not obvious (easy to find) when you look for them leading upto marriage

Bryant