Definition of "Gentleman"

[Marmalady]

Under what circumstances would someone term themselves "Gentleman" ? Was it sufficient that he had (somehow) amassed sufficient money that he did not need to work?

I have an ancestor who is described as a Gentleman on both his son's marriage certificate in 1848 and his own death certicate a year later. On the 1841 census he is described as "Ind"

I also cannot work out where he would have got sufficient money from -- his father was a stonemason and on his death some 20 yrs earlier had left less than £20 to be shared amongst several siblings so it does not seem to be inherited wealth.
I have not yet been able to trace his marriage, but it seems unlikely that he would marry very far above his own status.

[stanmapstone]

See What made a "Gentleman"? http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,410656.msg2777609.html#msg2777609

Stan

[MariaB]

I looked up the thread you sent.
Now the next question:
What does "Esq" stand for after a name? I know it means Esquire, but what does it signify when it is "XYZ, Esq" rather than "Mr. XYZ"?

MariaB

[Deb D]

Bookmarking for future reference!  I have an ancestor who called himself "Esq." ... but have no real idea what it meant, nor whether he was actually entitled to use it.

[Billyblue]

People who were 'gentry' or thought they were (?!) called themselves Esq. rather than Mr.
'way back when'

This is in England, of course.  A few tried to put it on when they got out to Australia, but were quickly put in their place.
           

Dawn M

[Wiggy]

A few tried to put it on when they got out to Australia, but were quickly put in their place.

Though the newspapers still often referred to them as Esq so I've found in my travels amongst my family.

- I have a couple of people named as Esq and they are also down as Gentlemen - in my case one bloke had enough money to be 'Ind'ependent and didn't need to work - don't know how that came about either - his parents were farmers and then tailors! (didn't even get free land)  In the other case they were large landowners who employed others even though they also worked the land - not tooooo much of the 'hands on' maybe

-   and how did they get from convict to publican to landowner  - why free gov't land grants in the early days of the colony of course!!

         Some of my lot ended up with thousands of acres of free land!!  No wonder they did well for themselves!     
The other side who came later and had to buy land didn't do nearly as well!!   

Wiggy

[Billyblue]

"Though the newspapers still often referred to them as Esq so I've found in my travels amongst my family."

This is true, Wiggy, but the custom didn't last long, did it?
Tall poppy syndrome I think they call it         

Dawn M

[Wiggy]

 You are correct!  cut them down to size at all costs!!   

[stanmapstone]

I looked up the thread you sent.
Now the next question:
What does "Esq" stand for after a name? I know it means Esquire, but what does it signify when it is "XYZ, Esq" rather than "Mr. XYZ"?

MariaB

Originally the term Esquire denoted an attendant to, or the son of a knight or lord, but later denoted a status above that of a gentleman, or men who were regarded as ‘gentlemen’ by birth, position, or education. it then became just a courtesy title.

Stan