James THORPE - arrival in Australia

[maxene]

Okay, now I have gotten over my excitement, calmed down and started checking facts. The James Thorp who came out in 1820 is not my James. His daughter Mary was born in 1823 - I am not sure whether in Donegal or in Paisley, Scotland (that's something else I am chasing). Some family members say James and his wife Jane married in Paisley, Scotland C1823. When she came to Australia in 1837 Jane had five children (the father of whom was James) with her - so I am thinking James came out 1827 - 1837.
I will get back to the convict records; I think there was a James Thorp who came out in 1828 or 1829.
  Thanks for all the help. Even when things are wrong, it helps me eliminate things and find new avenues to research. Maxene

[majm]

Hi there,

Was Mary, the one born in 1823, the youngest of the children? Have you confirmed that her dad was recorded as James ...

Re the 1858 d.c. .... and the usual question .... how long in the colonies .... does it give an answer there (realising that the NSW BDM index seems to indicate that the informant did not provide a given name for that chap, so the information may not be as reliable as it could be) ....

Pulling my thinking cap down harder 

Cheers,  JM 

[maxene]

Hi Majm. Mary, born 1823, was the oldest child - I think.
James the father was born in 1803 which would make him 20 when she was born. There is no info on his death certificate. The belief is that he died suddenly of possibly a heart attack as he was driving a bullock train and was not found for several days and then he was only identified as Mr Thorpe. He was buried at Murrurrundi but his headstone is at Maitland Cemetery - not sure if his remains were moved but I would presume so. There is a headstone which has: James Thorpe died 2 Jan. 1858 aged 55 years. Jane, wife of above, died 1 Oct 1877 aged 72 years. Alexander Thorpe, son of above, died 10 Sept 1914 aged 74 years and his son, Clarence J. Born 8 Aug 1883, died 15 Aug 1883.
I also have  Jane's death certificate, which says she was married in Paisley at 18 years of age but was born in Donegal, Ireland. Children are listed as 3 males, 7 females living, 2 females deceased - so I can already see I am short of 3 children. Back to the drawing board!!!
Frustrating! Maxene

[majm]

Hi there,

It is possible that while his name is on that headstone at Maitland, that his remains were not interred there, nor even transferred there at a later time.  Headstones do not necessarily indicate that all those named on them are interred in that grave.  But, that headstone does give you the d o d for James, so does that match up with the d.c. referenced 4559/1858

What are the likely years of birth for the children who came to Australia with his wife and his brother?  (hoping that her d.c. gives ages for them, or at least for those living at that time, or that the immigration records show their ages on entry into Australia)

Fingers crossed   

Cheers,  JM

[maxene]

Hi Majm - uncross your fingers...no luck. There are no ages listed on the "Adam Lodge" passenger list - just number of male (1) and female (4) children. Jane's death certificate lists only what I put on my last post - no names, dates, ages - just numbers. Alexander was baptised in Australia on 19/12/1838, Annie was born on 8/01/1841. There is an Anne and an Annie both listed as being born in 1841, James was born in 1843 and Matilda in 1849. Looking at the gaps, it is possible that the 2 births I don't have occurred between 1843 and 49.
Not much help I'm afraid. Maxene

[majm]

Oh dear .... I was so hoping those birth years would help you to eliminate some of the James Thorp/e arrivals as per these indexes which most likely you have already gone over and over....


http://srwww.records.nsw.gov.au/indexsearch/keyname.aspx
and
http://investigator.records.nsw.gov.au/ (simple search option)
and
http://colsec.records.nsw.gov.au/indexes/colsec/default.htm

Cheers,  JM

[majm]

A long shot ....

Newcastle's Christ Church Cathedral's bdm records have been uploaded and are free to search online.  There are family sheets as part of that.  The Rev Wilton was very active in the early years, going on tours to the outer areas of the parish.  He kept fairly detailed records.  There doesn't seem to be an index associated directly with the images online.  BUT, perhaps there's a family sheet for the THORPE family.  If so, it could well have the details for when James arrived, and also give details of his marriage and their children ....

Fingers crossed again.

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html  live links for the flicker images are part way through reply #2 at that thread.

Cheers,  JM

[maxene]

Hi again Majm - yes, I have been through those three sites before. I eliminated the convicts in the first site - although James Thorp on the "Minerva" 1824 is a possibility. The second site did not show up anything. The third site also has 2 James Thorpes in 1824. The best bet - but I still think unlikely - is the 1824 one who was sent to Windsor. I am still trying to find another angle. I do have both Jane's and James' death certificates and I have checked to see if I have missed anything on them - no such luck. I am still searching for the 2 children's births I have missed.
Thanks for your help.  Maxene

[majm]

Bestest I can offer at this late hour

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12420220 SMH19 July 1843, mention of a Mary Gilbert THORPE

http://trove.nla.gov.au/ndp/del/article/12423860 SMH 10 Aug 1843 mention of a Jane Gilbert THORP

Cannot find any mention in that year for James Thorp/e or any indication that Mary Gilbert Thorpe was related to Jane Gilbert Thorp or that these two were connected to your James Thorp/e

Were the baptisms or d.c. C of E, and if so, suggest you try the Christ Church Cathedral images....

Cheers,  JM