Author Topic: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW  (Read 6257 times)

Offline CLARK RESEARCHER

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Re: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 27 December 14 23:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi I am one of James family and you are right hard man to find ,maybe of interest to you that on Trove found an interview with James and he said he had vegetable garden where walch and sons are today so if he was telling the truth it would place him in Hobart.
Also had alady contact me regarding being related to James though a sister but havent researched that yet.
I was thinking maybe Anorfolk Isalnder but havent had time to follow up

Offline TasTyger

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Re: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW
« Reply #10 on: Tuesday 30 December 14 10:44 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

I think the James Peevor and William Clark enigma is going to continue to whirl until the sun goes nova !!  ::)

The speculation about James Peevor Clark has been rife the last few years and its all gotten more confused especially with people accepting a particular theory as being gospel and it flooding into online family trees ??.

When they released the book "Clarks of Ellendale" back in 1996 the researchers seem to have glossed over some of the specific aspects of James Peevor Clarks life. The burglary he was involved in 1832 was, paraphrasing - "not known where it took place but probably the Pittwater".

My research has found the event took place on the Macquarie River, near Kirklands and the property that became known as St Johnstone's. I found in the Campbell Town Goal record (Mitchell Library) that James Pevers, Free, native this colony, was committed for trial on suspicion of a felony. His employer is referred to as Rum John Coun (or Rum John Conn as more commonly known) Also listed are Richard and William Newport and Margaret Gardiner.

The property that Conn had on the Macquarie River was in fact a 600 acre stock run that Bartholomew Reardon of the Pittwater owned. It was a legal fiction that Conn was the real owner until things turned bad for Reardon. Rum John Conn had been stock keeper for the Reardons for over 22 years. In 1828 Conn applied for more land and stated he had 4 free men working for on his 600 acre spread. I believe 3 of those men were James Pevers and the 2 Newport brothers plus a "free" convict, William Coventry.

Reardon also had had land at the Eastern Marshes around Lake Tobias (1824) until he sold it to R Loane. If your think back to the interview you mentioned from 1908, James Clark said - "He well knew the two blacks, Mosquita and Black Jack, and saw them the day they commenced their plundering". This could be factual. The aboriginal group lead by them attacked James Hobbs stock hut at the Eastern Marshes in 1824 and killed a man named Doyle. This event took place just south of Reardon's land. I suspect Conn and Pevers like Doyle were tending stock in the area. He also mentions -  "In the days of the bushrangers he lost his bedding- as often as 13 times in one year, and at last took to sleeping in wool bags...". The Eastern Marshes were notorious hangouts for bushrangers in mid 1820's so again this may be fact.

The one thing in the interview I view with suspicion is - He remembered Hobart when it had only three thatched huts, in one of which he lived with the people by whom he had been reared, he having lost his parents in his infancy.He had a small garden, where Walch's Corner is now.

Hobart had more than three thatched huts even by late 1804 at the start of settlement. James wasn't born until 1808 (?) and I doubt he could remember anything until he was 5 years old plus, at least. His death certificate says he was born in Launceston so if he was reared by a family in Hobart he must have come down from Port Dalrymple as a infant. Again this is a minefield of speculation. He could have had a small garden on Walches corner but it had to have been there before 1813 because a building covered that site in that year. The Walches site was just outside the boundaries of the military compound where the likes of Sgt William Gangell (later his father in law) had occupancy.

All the above highlights why James Peevor has been so elusive. He had ties with people like the Reardons, the Gangells, the Newports at the Pittwater but was away most of the time on isolated stock runs in the interior owned by the Reardons.

It also links with the Norfolk Islanders. Bartholomew Reardon, Sr and Rum John Conn both coming from there. Conn also had land originally at New Norfolk and this harks to the mystery of the James Clark bapt. in 1813 who may have been a son of Charles and Catherine (Yearley) Clark who also had land further up the Back River. Is there some sort of unknown link?

Part 1

Offline TasTyger

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Re: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 30 December 14 10:45 GMT (UK) »
Part 2

As far as my William Clark goes - I'm none the wiser than I was 30 years ago. Speculation...speculation...speculation. He was a 'native of this colony" born circa 1813 are about the only hard boiled facts I can believe in. That there was some connection between him and James Peevor ?? Both William and James had children born on the properties of George Rayner (Mary Rayner, in fact George dying circa 1840) in 1843 and 1845. A man named James Griffin died at Hamilton in 1843. Burial register says he died at William Clarkes, Sandy Point (?) and the death informant was James (X) Clark, Farmer, Sandy Point. This properties name seems lost in time but I believe it was another Rayner land grant just down river from the main homestead of Fairydale.

I think the death informant signature was the first instance of James Peevor utilising the Clark surname...

A very compelling theory was espoused a few years ago that James Peevor and William Clark were the boys of John Cocklin/Coughlin and Elizabeth Callaghan (Clarke) who lived in the Morven district. Lending credence to James' birth in Launceston (or at least the north of VDL). The ages were even a very close match. The theory purported that William Coughlan who became a colonially convicted convict in 1837 for 7 years somehow connected with Ann Browning in New Norfolk and reverted to Clark/e and started a new life...

William Coughlan was indeed at New Norfolk in 1839, assigned to the Engineers Dept. under Mr J Turnbull so conceivably could have come into contact with Ann Browning. However his convict record shows he was still under sentence at Glenorchy as late as 1845 ?. Hard evidence proves William Clarke was at the Falls near New Norfolk in Oct 1841 and another reference might place him as early as Feb 1841. So they are two different individuals and the theory isn't valid. Yet I have seen a number of online trees that show James Peves Clark, William Clark and a sister Johanna or Honora linked to John and Elizabeth Cocklin...!!

What is a theory becomes fact and is spread all over the place !

Above is probably a long and rambling episode but thought it might highlight some of the endeavours undertaken to solve the puzzle !!.

Cheers,

Peter

Offline CLARK RESEARCHER

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Re: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW
« Reply #12 on: Tuesday 30 December 14 11:31 GMT (UK) »
hi I agree he is indeed a diffcult man to pin down i do beleive they were brothers though.
i also wonder if he was as old as he said he was which has everyone running around looking at wrong dates.
most of the things you said I have heard before hadnt heard about the propoerties he worked on that could be interesting to follow up ,thanks if you find anything let me know.
Here is something that alady sent me who thought she may be related see what you think

Elizabeth arrived per the Atlas I (1) 1802 as Eliza DONNELLY or DANIEL (probably a married or de facto name, maiden name CALLAHAN) and formed a relationship with William CLARK per Rolla 1803 soon after his arrival and was given a further colonial sentence of life under that name, both being sent to NI. I have evidence that others suffered such a fate. He was then transferred again to PD and she followed shortly afterwards. I presume that daughter Juliana is his. Then by a man known as PEVES (possibly the military guy Samuel who may well have come to VDL or perhaps she filled in some time in PJ herself) she has a James around 1810. Then she had William by some further as yet unidentified man, before settling down with COUGHLAN. Of course maybe she returned to CLARKE to have William since after all, that child has the same name literally as the CLARKE senior that I am postulating she was with. James PEVES may have known his father, whilst the younger William possibly no!
t, so hence the use of PEVES by James and CLARKE by William is at least reasonable. It is not an uncommon scenario for the times. Of course the children are generally described as part of the COUGHLAN household but for formal occasions like marriage take on their “proper” names”.

Incidentally, both James Peves/Clark and William Clark not only had families with similar names, but each named their first daughter, you guessed it, Elizabeth. Circumstantial but interesting!

What is interesting in all of this is that I can find absolutely no real trace of Juliana, Honoria or Ann/Eleanora CLARKE or COUGHLAN to help with the discussion one way or the other. However, a marriage of Nora COCHREAN in 1830 in PD to John WILLIAMS in 1830 might be relevant, since an Honorah Williams dies Launceston 1853 aged 38, which makes for a nice fit.

Furthermore, I can find no death for John Coughlan either.

However, we do have a death of an Elizabeth COUGHLIN that fits nicely in Morven in 1850 aged 80. So far, so good.

There is no further record of William at least as COUGHLAN unless of course he is the William CLARKE that Tas is looking for. Do I hear him cheering already?

But then it all comes unstuck because there are two, not one but two, deaths of James COUGHLANS in 1873 (Longford) and 1880 (Morven) aged 60 and 73 respectively which puts their birth dates back at 1813 and 1807 which if ether of these is the son of James and Elizabeth CLARKE/COUGHLAN just ruins my theory about him being James PEVES. First you build ‘em up and then you knock ‘em down.

Also, who on earth is the James CALLAGHAN who marries a Mary GAINGELL in Hobart in 1848!! (readers may have forgotten by now that James PEVES/CLARK had married Alice GANGELL, but this does not appear to be either her sister who died in Vic in 1904 under her married name of BASS, nor even her widowed mother, who died 1870 as GANGELL aged 77.

Otherwise its not really too bad as far solutions go. I’m not saying this is 100% correct or 100% certain, but there is no way you would ever find this stuff looking for CLARK alone, unless you know the whole story. Besides, what did happen to this family if I’m not on the right track?

At least here we have two boys James and William of about the right age, born in PD, to a mother who is ostensibly known as CLARK in her convict incarnation, but who is married to a COUGHLAN and who for whatever reasons has chosen to give her name as CALLAHAN when she baptises the boys before marrying COUGHLAN. Sure, it doesn’t explain where PEVES fits in. But there is at least a “suitable” candidate in the miliary man Samuel PEEVERS. It’s certainly worthy of closer scrutiny. So it’s now back to the family researchers to complete the loose ends, but please let me know how you get on.

So, does any one have any thoughts? Is any one still awake out there LOL?

Regards

Garry



Offline TasTyger

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Re: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW
« Reply #13 on: Tuesday 30 December 14 12:03 GMT (UK) »
The information that the lady sent you was taken from the "great debate" of a few years ago on AUS-Tasmania mailing list of which I am a lister.

The theorisation was by the late Garry Wilson who was very knowledgeable and contributed greatly to early VDL/NI puzzles.

The brother that Garry spoke of, William Coughlin or Coghlin became the convict I mentioned earlier - http://search.archives.tas.gov.au/ImageViewer/image_viewer.htm?CON31-1-7,470,446,L,80

Since it was proven this was a different William to "my" William Clark the theory collapsed and Garry himself admitted..."first you build them up, then you knock them down !!..."

As I say though some people have accepted this as gospel instead of relying on hard facts...

Peter


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Re: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW
« Reply #14 on: Tuesday 30 December 14 16:12 GMT (UK) »
Thanks ,saves me having to follow this one up ,the email was bigger than Ben Hur,and somethings didnt line up for James from what I could see .
 SoThis is the story that most people are going with ,when you mentioned it earlier

Offline TasTyger

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Re: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW
« Reply #15 on: Tuesday 30 December 14 21:38 GMT (UK) »
That's it. In a nutshell !!. Garry Wilson had a very "compelling" and "forceful" style about him so it's not a wonder lesser researchers have taken the whole thing as fact.

You have to follow the whole line of emails in the thread to get the collapsed truth !! As I say some people have run with it and now it's establishing itself on the web as the undeniable truth. :-\

Offline TasTyger

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Re: CLARKE, John (1809) & William (1818) bapts. Hexham NSW
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 01 January 15 10:18 GMT (UK) »
Two other offences I found against James Peevers don't seem to have been found by earlier researchers.

On April 15 1834 he was again in the Campbell Town Goal on a felony charge. His employer was Charles Lain (Lane). He was discharged on the 18 April. However both he and Charles Lane (FS) were back in Goal, 28 April again on a felony charge. Both were committed for trial at Launceston on the 7th May 1834 but were out on bail, 21 June.

In the Supreme Court Records the felony was for sheep stealing but both were "discharged by proclamation".

In 1839 in the SC, Thomas Wiliams per Asia was charged with stealing 17 1/2 bushels of wheat the property of Hugh McGuiness. James Pevis, F Native, charged with receiving the same knowing to be stolen. Both were found not guilty.

So James had a number of run ins with the law before his famous "over the wall' act at Richmond Jail in 1841/2 (?).

Something else I found of interest just recently was a marriage announcement from the Mercury, 5th Nov. 1842 which reads -

 BRITTON-DILLON:-On September 5, 1942, at Ellendale,, by Rev Father Adlum, Beryl Elizabeth, younger ,daughter of Mrs. and the late Maurice Dillon, Ellendale, and great grand daughter of the late James Clark, Rockmount, Ellendale (formerly of England), to Allen, son of Mr. and Mrs. Darcy Britton, of New Norfolk.

"Formerly of England" - where did that tit bit of information spring from ??

Cheers,

Peter