Modified! Did Robert Whyte marry at 14 yrs old?

[JAP]

<snip> Christian Gilmour married Nov 17, 1820 to Robert Whyte b. Mar 10, 1806....and this Robert Whyte was the son of Robert Whyte and Janet Ramsay, both born in the 1780's (both Robert's and Janet were born in Kinnettles, Angus, Scotland) <snip>

Hi Dorothy,

Yes, that was what you had set out in earlier posts about your understanding of the relationships.

However, my question was - do you have any proof that Robert WHYTE who married in Glasgow in 1820 is the same person as Robert WHYTE born in Kinnettles, Angus in 1806?

I now see that this same question had already been asked on your thread on the identical topic on the Beginners' Board.  Little Nell wrote there on 25 April "Before you claim the 1806 birth as the Robert who married in 1820, do you have some sort of proof that the two are the same person?"

Unless you have definite proof, doesn't it seem a little unlikely that a person marrying in Glasgow in 1820 would be a 14 year old who had been born in Angus in 1806?

Regards,

JAP

[safarina]

Start all over again from scratch??

We have family papers (proof) of the below "relationship" (but, no birth & death dates for Thomas Nicol abt 1800, or Henry Nicol abt 1830) & are searching (we can't go farther back without more info on them)

FATHER--Robert White b. 1910 (m. Mary Turpett) is the 14th child of:

GRANDFATHER--Robert 'White' Nicol b. 1855 (m. Jane Scott) (left home- changed his name to White in 1870 )..is the son of:

G-GRANDFATHER --Henry Nicol 1830?  (m. Christina Whyte/White)  is the son of:

G-G-GRANDFATHER--Thomas Nicol 1800?  (m. Mary Ramsay)

The confusion all "started" when we tried to determine why so many of our descendants had "Ramsay" as a middle name...Before we received papers confirming a "Mary Ramsay" had married our g-g grandfather Thomas Nicol, we had claimed Christina's husband's line as being one with a Ramsay marriage in it....BUT, to me, the 14yr old marrying didn't sit right.  "I" don't have proof of this being Christina's husband Robert Whyte's line, other than the fact that I agreed it looked like all the names etc fit the picture.

Now, I am so confused as to where to begin again (my mind is not a young one & often wants to just give up!!)..but I don't want to add false information to our TREE.  Maybe we should just leave that branch alone and concentrate on our NICOL  line? (We have now found that the middle name of 'Ramsay' being used is  likely to be from our g-grandmother "Mary Ramsay".

Thanks to all that are trying to help me sort this out..

Dorothy

[kenjo]

Dorothy,
That is very well put,
It all makes sense now,
the Ramsay being from the nicol line.
You will have to forget about the child marrying,
I feel as you would now that the White line, comes from around Glasgow.
One other thing I noticed,
Your Robert White Nicol, named his first born after his notorious, father, and repeatedly used Nicol in his childrens names, this doesn't sound like a man who hated his father.
I'm just adding more confusion to the pot
I will look for the family in the 1871c, for you now, must put you out of your misery,
kenjo

[safarina]

Hi,

I doubt if any one could add more confusion to the inconsistant stories (or lack of stories) in the family.  We do know now that with the Poor Law applications & the little bit of info on them that there was a family problem around 1866...and that much later (1889) after Christina died and Henry remarried that Henry had a problem   with substance abuse (alcohol).
The problems that occurred to make Robert Nicol White run away may have been dealt with, put behind them, and as an adult rebuilt a  relationship with his father.
The only living relatives that would maybe know the story would be the descendants that remained in Govan, Scotland ..and we have no information at all on Archibald White (one of Robert White and Jane Scott's 14 children) who married Margaret 'Peggy' ?? except that they had one daughter named "Betty"

Thanks for the interest and help,

Dorothy

[safarina]

Kenjo,

Well...!
Knowledge now is that at Census time in 1871, Robert White Nicol was still living with his parents Henry & Christina Nicol, his 10 yr. old sister Margaret and 3 yr old brother Henry. ( a sister Christina died young and a sister Janet b. 1857 is not with them either)

Robert is 15 on this census, so he would have left home after census time and then dropped the "Nicol" as his name. The next records I have of Robert "White" are his Army papers --enlistment in 1878 etc...and his marriage certificate of 1890 to Jane Scott. (dau. of Archibald Scott and Ann Henderson)

We know that Christina died Aug 29,1874, but don't know when Henry Nicol died. (he remarried after his wife's death to Mary Cross)

Now need to search for Henry's actual birth and death dates....He listed Thomas Nicol and Mary Ramsay as his parents on the Poor Law application in 1889. (have no info on them yet)

Just trying to post a picture for myself & anyone else that might be following this thread and end up as confused as me.

I have no idea now who Christina's husband's family is---but think I should scrap all the info I had on what was thought to be the line.


Thanks to you and to everyone trying to help me sort this all out.

Dorothy

[safarina]

Hi,

I didn't know if I should continue here or start a new topic, as I now would like to see if I can find Henry Nicol's birthdate and something about his parents. (This doesn't really go with the "Topic" I originally posted here, but information relating to it is here in these previous posts)

(What would you suggest I do to seek help here?)

On the Poor Law it states that Thomas Nicol and "Mary" Ramsay are Henry's parents, and I have been trying to find a record of their marriage.

The only thing I came up with is a marriage of Thomas Nicol and a "Margaret" Ramsay in 1830 which would be the right timing for Henry having been born approximately 1830.  Would there be a record of who this couple's children were.....and is it possible that it would be Margaret instead of Mary. (you would think Henry would know who his own mother's name was to put on an application form?)

Safarina

[maclennan25]

this is the only child i can see on the igi for this couple. 

THOMAS NICOL 
  Spouse:  MARGARET RAMSAY   
  Marriage:  03 DEC 1830   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
 
MARGARET MCKELLOP NICOL 
  Female     
 Christening:  25 OCT 1836   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland
  Father:  THOMAS NICOL 
  Mother:  MARGARET RAMSAY 

kind regards,
Lorna.

[safarina]

Thanks,

I guess I will still have to find a Thomas Nicol that married a "Mary" Ramsay with a son Henry...right about the same time.

There's a possibility that the age of 55 for Henry Nicol on the 1889 Poor Law application is incorrect....and that's all I have to go on right now to estimate Henry's birthdate. (but he could have been born later than the only child listed with Thomas & "Margaret")

Henry Nicol married Christina White 14 JUL 1854   Glasgow, Lanark, Scotland.....so I thought maybe he was born about 20 yrs earlier??

Safarina