Old IRA Dublin Brigade

[JohnMB]

Was a higher standard of proof required for anti treaty veterans who applied for a military pension than for pro treaty veterans? I ask because I recently got a copy of the pension application of John O'Reilly (pro treaty) who served in Q Company. The accompanying note from the VAS, Dept. of Defence states that pension applicants had to suuply a detailed account of activities claimed. John O'Reilly's application simply gives the dates he served in Q Company, the name of his OC, Archie Kennedy and the names of 3 referees; Maj. Gen. Sean McMahon GHQ and Comdt. C. Carberry and Capt. Peter Pedereschi of Island Bridge Barracks which to mind my does not constitute a detailed account. I'm quite disappointed in the lack of detail.

[Shiraz]

Sandlotball.

I have some information on Noel Lemass which you may have picked up already.  He was a brother of the late Sean Lemass and was wounded in the foot during the Easter Rising.  He was with the other prisoners in Richmond Barracks, as he was unable to walk some of the other prisoners had to carry him to the latrines.  Subsequently he became an officer in the IRA, but during the Civil War he was shot and his body was found in a lonely spot in the Featherbed Mountains.

Shiraz

[capel street man]

Hello JohnMB, you should not feel disappointed in the lack of detail, the names he gives as references -

Archie Kennedy
Maj. General Sean McMahon
Comdt. C.Carberry
Capt.Peter Pederechi

These  were all upstanding men and would have known what John O,Reilly had done in "Q " Co. You did not have to give a detailed account, but if you did, it helped to speed up your application, perhaps John thought that he did not have to justify what he had done, but if the Pension Board wished to contact the above named references to check that he was entitled to a pension, that was enough.

Did the P.A. state how much he was entitled to and what were the dates ?

CSM

[JohnMB]

Hi CSM,

The Board of assessors determined his service for pension purposes to be from 1 Apr 1921 to 30 Jun 1922 in Oglaigh na hEireann and from 1 Jul 1922 to 30 Sep 1923 in the Defence Forces.  The Military Service Pensions Branch of the Department of Defence posted an Award Certificate (No 2146/SP/12108) on 12 July 1929 to John O'Reilly granting him a Pension in accordance with the terms of the Military Service Pensions Act, 1924 of 47 Pounds, 16 Shillings and 2 Pence per annum payable from 15 June 1929 in recognition of his service during the Anglo-Irish War. John O'Reilly's pension was twice as large as that granted to his step father, James Cunningham who served from 1916 to 1921. The VAS wouldn't release the details of James's pension application to me because of the digitisation project underway for the 1916 centenary of the military pension applications it holds. For me the really useful item of info released to me was John O'Reilly's naval service number which I didn't previously have. Without it teh Military Archive couldn't previously find a file on hisnaval service between 1939 and 1945. I may find it now.

John MB.

[sandlotball]

Sandlotball.

I have some information on Noel Lemass which you may have picked up already.  He was a brother of the late Sean Lemass and was wounded in the foot during the Easter Rising.  He was with the other prisoners in Richmond Barracks, as he was unable to walk some of the other prisoners had to carry him to the latrines.  Subsequently he became an officer in the IRA, but during the Civil War he was shot and his body was found in a lonely spot in the Featherbed Mountains.

Shiraz

Shiraz

Thank you for that info. I did learn Noel was Sean's brother & was killed in the Civil War. Would you happen to know the dates of his time in Richmond ?

[Shiraz]

Sandlotball

I can give you some idea of dates, my uncle who was 15 at the time had been taken prisoner in City Hall initially he was in Ship Street Barracks and then transferred to Kilmainham. He was there the week of the executions and was transferred to Richmond Barracks on the Sunday 8thMay (?) . Initially Noel Lemass was upstairs with a group but his angle wound had turned septic and the others had to carry him to the latrines. He got very little sympathy from his jailers. After a while he was moved to the ground floor. My uncle was with a party of the younger members who were released a day after the men had been marched off to the North Wall for shipping to England.  I think it was probably about the 14th May. Sean Lemass was released with my uncle and about four/five other young lads.  I would imagine after the prisoners had been moved the military would have treated Noel for his wound.

Shiraz

[sandlotball]

Thanks for filling me in on that Shiraz

[Don Rorke]

Hi everyone,

I have being reading this thread with great interest, and finding the links and information fascinating.

I was wondering if some of you good people could help me get to the bottom of what my Grandfather may have being doing during the War of Independence and the Civil War. We know very little was known about his movements until we found that there is a file of his on display in the National Library

His name was William Warren, Born in Kingstown 1896
He was in the Royal Irish Fusillers until 1920
He then held the rank of Sgt in B Coy 2nd Batt Dublin

The papers include in his file in the National Library

Include a list of Customs House Arrest. Nominal Role

and witness reports of a shooting on Capel St Sept 1922

Among other papers

here are two links to more detailed summaries of what is in his files

National Library
http://catalogue.nli.ie/Record/vtls000260528

and Auction Cat No 163
http://www.adams.ie/BidCat/Catalogues.asp?F1=3072&F2=4169&status=A&F4=0&select=7022&offset=150

I haven't had a chance to view these papers and it has only come to light recently, it also appears that he remained a soldier until 1968, which none of us in the family we aware of.

If anyone could help in shedding some light on this, it would be very much appreciated, I'm afraid my knowledge of that period in history is very limited and rusty and I'm trying to brush up on it how.

Thanks in advance

Don Rorke

[cmcm1]

Hi
would anyone have a list of men who were in

C company second batt. old IRA

please