Author Topic: Old IRA Dublin Brigade  (Read 225240 times)

Offline Gary Deering

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #189 on: Monday 21 February 11 15:48 GMT (UK) »
I think most of us here try to have an independent view Corisande, its not youtube where all the children come out to play & ambush every video on Irish history. The facts are clear on pensions that the Fine Gael goverment of the 20`s did not give anti treaty men pensions & that the Fianna Fail Goverment of the 30`s tried to address it & gave some of them pensions.One thing that is clear from reading my great uncles papers is they had to jump thru hoops & beg for it.
Deering Dublin,Hickey Dublin,Wilson Dublin,Murphy Dublin/Carlow.

Offline myluck!

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,769
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #190 on: Monday 21 February 11 16:25 GMT (UK) »
from my basic research I agree I have copies of some letters written begging (applying) for pensions from relatives that were on the verge of eviction due to their dimenished circumstances.
The most poignant letter I've mentioned on this forum before; it was one of many sent over a 15 year period and ended with the words "please believe in me" but unfortunately they didn't
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder

Offline IrishMedals

  • RootsChat Extra
  • **
  • Posts: 29
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #191 on: Monday 21 February 11 20:40 GMT (UK) »
There is very interesting collection of letters in the National Archive in Bishop’s Street relating to various appeals to the Taoiseach relating to Army Pensions. While researching pension applications I found that political persuasion had no bearing on weather the pension was granted or not, the pensions board had a set of criteria which had to be met (this was adhered to rigorously for every application) and if the applicant met the criteria they got the pension.

According to the pension’s board records there were nearly 150,000 applications for pensions of which about 10 percent were granted, it is also worth noting that about 1500 medals with COMRAC bar were awarded. With 9 out of every 10 applicants being refused a pension it is understandable why you hear so many stories of pensions being refused to what appeared to be deserving causes.

There are other interesting patterns shown in the pension applications. Pensions were given to members of Flying Columns, members of Active Service Unites rarely succeeded in getting a pension. The vast majority of applications from Anti Treaty IRA were received after the 1934 Army Pensions Act (Dev came into power in 1932). Many Anti Treaty refused to apply for a pension from the Free State Government, if you every get a chance to read the files in Bishop’s Street there are some very interesting letters to Dev relating to this, there is a letter from a woman whose husband refused to apply for a pension from the Free State Government and she goes on to complain they were finding it hard to survive on his British Army pension.

Offline myluck!

  • RootsChat Marquessate
  • *******
  • Posts: 3,769
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #192 on: Monday 21 February 11 21:32 GMT (UK) »
we have one relative who was in Kilmainham Jail and there is a postcard photo of him there He is reputed to have said that he fought for his country not for a pension and never applied for a penions and died in relative poverty
Kearney & Bourke/ Johns & Fox/ Mannion & Finan/ Donohoe & Curley
Byrne [Carthy], Keeffe/ Germaine, Butler/ McDermott, Giblin/ Lally, Dolan
Toole, Doran; Dowling, Grogan/ Reilly, Burke; Warren, Kidd [Lawless]/ Smith, Scally; Mangan, Rodgers/ Fahy, Calday; Staunton, Miller
Further generations:
Brophy Coleman Eathorn(e) Fahy Fitzpatrick Geraghty Haverty Keane Keogh Nowlan Rowe Walder


Offline corisande

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 1,577
  • grantonline.com cairogang.com irishbrigade.eu
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #193 on: Monday 21 February 11 21:45 GMT (UK) »
Sir Roger Casement - he who was hanged for his part in raising the Irish Brigade and in landing German arms before Easter Rising - said

Quote
"There is no living in being an Irish patriot"
Grant in Tipperary
Piper in Tipperary
Blong in Leix
Watson in Offaly
Pugh in North Wales
Evans in North Wales
Proctor in Edinburgh
Steedman in Stirling

Offline Gary Deering

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #194 on: Tuesday 22 February 11 01:16 GMT (UK) »
My great uncle said " No Country is worth dying for" in his later years, then again if one country did not invade another, no one would ever have to die for there country . Greed, suppression & land grabbing are terrible things.
Deering Dublin,Hickey Dublin,Wilson Dublin,Murphy Dublin/Carlow.

Offline kristof

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 127
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #195 on: Tuesday 22 February 11 04:07 GMT (UK) »
According to the pension’s board records there were nearly 150,000 applications for pensions of which about 10 percent were granted, it is also worth noting that about 1500 medals with COMRAC bar were awarded. With 9 out of every 10 applicants being refused a pension it is understandable why you hear so many stories of pensions being refused to what appeared to be deserving causes.

Thanks for that; really interesting.  I had no idea that the rate was so low.  Naively i thought that you either qualified or you didn't and that was the end of it.  Well, that puts it into context now; maybe it wasn't that there was discrimination based upon Francis being in an anti-treaty unit, it was just that he was in the 90% of people who applied that didn't succeed.  On the rejection papers for Francis it says that he wasn't a person to whom the act (the 1934 Act) applied and there is a "code" in brackets after it "R21".  Does anyone know what that means (if anything)?
Brennan (Finglas)
O'Shaughnessy (Clare)
Welch (Dublin)
Moore (Portadown)
Williams (Cornwall)
Albrecht (Germany & Australia)
Korn (Germany & Australia)
Coster (London)

Offline Gary Deering

  • RootsChat Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 203
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #196 on: Tuesday 22 February 11 10:37 GMT (UK) »
Its weird the way they did the pensions,In My great uncles case, they gave him no service from 1917 till 1919, they awarded 2 years service for a one year period from 1921-1922, they awarded him 2 years service for 9 months during the civil war, with other bits & bobs he got  a 7 years service pension. It seems he got nothing for his years in C coy 4th batt & a little for his service in the engineers, but for extra for ASU & Squad service & extra for civil war service !
Deering Dublin,Hickey Dublin,Wilson Dublin,Murphy Dublin/Carlow.

Offline rathmore

  • RootsChat Aristocrat
  • ******
  • Posts: 2,131
  • Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
    • View Profile
Re: Old IRA Dublin Brigade
« Reply #197 on: Tuesday 22 February 11 11:56 GMT (UK) »
sorry if this address is all ready on: http://www.generalmichaelcollins.com
this site is worth a visit, but you all have put a lot of good photo roots chat room