Old IRA Dublin Brigade

[patrick0169]

Hi Thanks for welcome,
We can arrange a viewing sometime to suit.  I live in Athlone but do travel to Dublin and perhaps we can meet .
In the meantime I have a list which I belive are the names of the people in the photo.  perhap the forum can confirm some of them?


p.s. I'd love to see a large version of the photo


Dublin Moderator

[kristof]

I was wondering if anyone could tell me if it was common for those Old IRA who were anti-treaty to be denied a pension in later years? 

I only ask because of Francis Brennan's pension application (i posted a transcript of it a month or two back).  Tracing the events that Francis was involved in during the war of independence it is clear that he was an active member of a unit of the Fingal Brigade, that he was engaged in ambushes, arms raids, burning of coast guard stations, RIC barracks and so on.  However, he was a republican and was also later engaged in ambushes of Free State troops, sabotage of railway lines and bridges, attacks on free state barracks and so on.  After capture he was sentanced to death, which was later commuted to 7 years.  He was imprisoned in Kilmainham, then Mountjoy and finally Tintown 2 before being released in 1924. 

So, he applied for a pension in 1935 and it took until 1940 for them to get back to him and reject his application.  So in 1948 he applied for a medal, but because he had been refused a pension he couldn't apply for a medal with the bar signifying active service.  So the medal (with no bar) was granted in 1950. He died in 1955. 

I know for  sure that another member of his republican unit applied for a pension but was also rejected.  Was this the policy of the then irish government, to reject the pension applications of anti-treaty fighteres?  Can anyone fill in more information about this?

[Gary Deering]

Hi Patrick, what a great picture, I would be very interested in seeing it in better detail & the list of names thats with it, I am interested in it for 2 reasons, one is I had 2 family members in the army around that time, Also I have set up a group on Facebook & I am posting as many pictures that I can find of people who took part in the burning of the custom house.

Kristof, my under standing of the pensions was that in the early days that only men who sided with the Free state got pensions, then in 1932 Fianna Fail got into power & addressed that  ! so everyone got them that could prove they took part in actions (I.e they used a gun at some point) or where in prision for there actions / membership. I know the men had to have a lot of refs to prove what they did.

[patrick0169]

Hi Gary,
We can arange a viewing at some point.  I live in Athlone but do travel to Dubline etc.  Let me know where you are.
The list of names is in the Tif file on a previous posting

Pat

[Paulmur]

Gaisgeach,

I have also just received some papers relating to my grandfather who was also a member of A coy 3rd battalion and was in Boland's mill. His name was Seamus Murray and I have a partial list of members of the garrison with hand written notes on who is living and dead . William Roe is noted to have died on 20 th June 1976

Would you be willing to share your list with me
Paul

[Gary Deering]

Hi Patrick, I did not see the list, thats very interesting, there is some names there that at that time where just lower ranks that ended up as  Captains ,commandants etc, I see Mick Dunne is there, he was killed in Kerry by a trap mine which lead to the Dublin Guard going mad & the whole ballysheedy thing.Have you got access to a scanner Patrick ?

[kristof]

Kristof, my under standing of the pensions was that in the early days that only men who sided with the Free state got pensions, then in 1932 Fianna Fail got into power & addressed that  ! so everyone got them that could prove they took part in actions (I.e they used a gun at some point) or where in prision for there actions / membership. I know the men had to have a lot of refs to prove what they did.

Gary,  that was my understanding as well, that when Fianna Fail got in that they were fairer in their pensions policy.  That's what i don't understand about Francis' application; he was involved in several actions during the anglo-irish war including the raid on the Collinstown Aerodrome.  He had some pretty good referees, all well known men with proven active service.  I know for certain that another member (William Wyse) of Francis' civil war flying column applied at the same time (1935) as Francis and was also rejected.  This other member had also been very active during the anglo-irish war, was in some of the same units as Francis and had the same referees. 

I wonder what it was that led the pensions board to reject to reject Francis and William's applications?

[Gary Deering]

Kristof, I dont know, the whole thing seems very strange.The only pension forms I have ever seen where my great uncles,his where the very early ones 1924/25. He did not have to list actions on the pension stuff (but did on Army forms for demob grant ) all he listed was his units & C/O`s plus refs in each case.Then he had to attend an interview board & they left him for months before he got his pension, I have copies of letters here that he wrote asking for his pension, very sad really. 

Gary

[corisande]

  was my understanding as well, that when Fianna Fail got in that they were fairer in their pensions policy.   

I am commenting here has someone from Northern Ireland, who has no axe to grind either way on your political parties.

However I would say that there is a difference in the perception today of what happened and the reality what actually happened, not only with pensions but with many of the events during the War of Independence and with the Civil War.

It may just be that nobody has really looked into the pension policies of both parties over the whole period. Until one gets an independent view it is very difficult to know if one was "fairer" than another.