Doaks near Ballynagarrick

[KatC]

I am confused by the information I am seeing and won't be able to order information for a while.  Would anyone advise me on an approach?

Joseph Doak Sr died 1898 per PRONI and his will mentions Joseph (Sarah) as one of his executors.  There is no civil record of the death on familysearch to give the age.  Is Sarah the mother or the wife of Joseph (Sarah)?  Sarah says she was born about 1851 to 1856, she said she was widowed in 1901,  and she died  in 1909.

Alexander Doak b May 12, 1879 (m. Hannah Martha Finlay) is the son of Joseph Doak and Sarah per the family's obituary.  Sister Elizabeth Doak b. abt 1886 (m. John Terry) also claims Joseph and Sarah are parents.  She is living with widowed Sarah in 1901.  I can not find a marriage civil record  for Alex or for Sarah or for Joseph marrying a Sarah.

Son Joseph and William J. were living in Ireland in 1942 per an obituary.  Son Joseph should be in the census and about 30 or less.   He appears to be the illegitimate? son born to a Sarah Doak in 1866 (no father listed in civil but a Livingston listing suggests  John Livingston).  He appears to have married Mary Jane Wilson and is the only reasonably aged Joseph (Valentine Doak also had a son Joseph of the same age, though.).

Dau Sarah Jane b. 1875 had married Samuel James Boyce in 1895 and lived in Ireland.  There is a civil record of her marriage.   Possibly this is the Sarah Jane b. 1871.  Sarah's son Samuel Edmund b. July 13, 1882 is the only child who definitely has a birth certificate.  He was boarding with Martha (Doak) McCutcheon in 1901 and claimed she was his mother when emigrating. Martha  looks like the dau of Valentine Doak.  One of Martha's descendents was checking Samuel Edmund's baptism record, I think.

If unmarried Sarah Doak had a son who is brother to the son of a married Sarah Doak, she either married a Joseph Doak or the children claimed her father as her husband.  Is a birth certificate more reliable than a marriage record? Would familysearch have all the civil records or shall I check the index to civil records? 

[Elwyn Soutter]

Alexander Doak's marriage to Hanna Martha Finlay is registered in Banbridge Jul - Sept 1900 Volume 1, page 235.

There's a death registered in Lisburn in Jan - Mar 1898 for Joseph Wilson Doake, b 1823, Volume 1, page 560. Is that your Joseph?

[kingskerswell]

Hi
   Doak/finlay marriage was on 10 Jul 1900 in Tullylish Presbyterian Church, Banbridge.

Regards

[KatC]

Thank you  for answering.  That was quite thoughtful.

 The Finlays had put some information on familysearch, but did not include Alexander's father for some reason.   I assume they saw the record and they also noted that sister Phinia Finlay married James Alex Doak.  He has a brother Samuel Edmund Doak born the year before Joseph and Sarah's, so I am expecting the Sam Edmunds to be cousins.  Edmunds are rare.   It would be natural to include this information. 

It just feels like something is wrong. 

I feel like there are too many children for them all to be illegitimate, but can't find any trace of a marriage for Alexander's parents or many of the birth records. I have no idea what an illegitimate child puts on a marriage record as a father, but I wondered if I could trust a marriage record.

[KatC]

I saw the Joseph Wilson Doake, but Lisburn discouraged me.  The will mentioned Joseph of Ballynagarrick and the"widow" Sarah was in Ballynagarrick in 1901.  However it is reasonable to have Wilson as a middle name, so I should check.   

[aghadowey]

Have to say the original post here has me quite confused.

Joseph Doak Sr died 1898 per PRONI and his will mentions Joseph (Sarah) as one of his executors.  There is no civil record of the death on familysearch to give the age.
There's a death registered in Lisburn in Jan - Mar 1898 for Joseph Wilson Doake, b 1823, Volume 1, page 560. Is that your Joseph?
I searched PRONI Wills and can't find a record of a Joseph Doak who died in 1898 although I did find Valentine Doak "late of Ballynagarrick County Down Pensioner who died 10 October 1898." Will mentions wife Priscilla, son James, daughters Margaret Elizabeth* & Lily Bella, son Alexander (America).

I can not find a marriage civil record  for Alex or for Sarah or for Joseph marrying a Sarah.
Civil registration index lists a marriage- Joseph Doak, Jan./Mar.1878 Banbridge registration district, volume 1 page 243

[KatC]

No wonder I am lost.

 Joseph Sr died 1922 and executor Joseph (Sarah) is Joseph who married Mary Jane Wilson in 1891.   This Joseph was born about the right time for him to be the illegitimate son of Sarah.

The Joseph who married in 1878 married Elizabeth Jane Fulton.

Priscilla had both sons Samuel and Alexander in the US before Valentine died says his will.  I will look for them.  However, the Samuel Edmund, Alexander, and Elizabeth who move to NY arrive after 1905 and would not be the children mentioned in Valentine's will. Valentine died Oct 10, 1898 and I caught the his death date as Joseph's by mistake.  So these are not children of Valentine.

Sarah is almost certainly the lady in the 1901 census with Elizabeth 15 as her daughter.    2 of their 3 NY obituaries mentions parents Joseph and Sarah Doak and siblings William J. and Joseph in Ireland when Samuel Edmund Doak died. There is a Joseph living with Joseph and Annie (Rogers) who married in 1891.  Annie lists no children but has son Joseph born about 1889.  She sounds like a second wife. 

I have a potential mother Sarah and a potential brother Joseph living with father Joseph.  Maybe there  is a divorce?

[aghadowey]

Still can't quite understand all the details posted. Take this for example-
Sarah's son Samuel Edmund b. July 13, 1882 is the only child who definitely has a birth certificate.  He was boarding with Martha (Doak) McCutcheon in 1901 and claimed she was his mother when emigrating. Martha  looks like the dau of Valentine Doak.
Why do you say Martha Doak is probably Valentine's daughter?
Martha Doak married Thomas McCutcheon (her marriage certificate would confirm her father's name) and in both 1901 and 1911 census a Joseph Doak is in the household (and Martha's son is named Joseph McCutcheon)-
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Down/Tullylish/Ballynagamick/1243843
www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Down/Tullylish/Ballynagarrick/252704
Also, Valentine's Will doesn't mention a daughter Martha.

Priscilla had both sons Samuel and Alexander in the US before Valentine died says his will. Can't remember seeing a son Samuel in Valentine's Will either.

[kingskerswell]

Hi,
    According to the index in Ancestry Ireland Martha Doak's father was Joseph.

Regards