Author Topic: DNA testing - genetic genealogy  (Read 65451 times)

Offline DevonCruwys

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #225 on: Monday 21 March 11 12:54 GMT (UK) »
Interestingly it's now been found that Europeans share a small percentage of DNA with Neanderthals:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1987568,00.html

Ozzy Osbourne was found to have some Neanderthal DNA when he had his full genome sequenced, and we probably all have a little bit of Neanderthal DNA but it doesn't show up on the Y-chromosome or in mitochondrial DNA or at least it hasn't done so far! We await the news from Bournemouth with interest!

Researching: Ayshford, Berryman, Bodger, Boundy, Cruse, Cruwys, Dillon, Faithfull, Kennett, Keynes, Ratty, Tidbury, Trask, Westcott, Wiggins, Woolfenden.

Offline Redroger

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #226 on: Monday 21 March 11 13:08 GMT (UK) »
Interesting, I'll get some plasters in to stop my knuckles getting sore just in case.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Offline supermoussi

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #227 on: Wednesday 23 March 11 12:46 GMT (UK) »
I believe J2 is quite rare and is one of the haplogroups that's possibly associated with the Roman occupation of Britain.

As Julius Caesar said:-

I came, I saw, I left.

or someat like that  ;)

There is no evidence that the Romans changed the DNA makeup of Britain significantly. Mediterranean J1 people are much more likely connected with more recent immigrants, ie medieval & ashkenazi Jews, Italians, etc.

I have had an email from FTDNA, my results should be available  around the 29th April, and I shall then know   whether or not Homo sapiens Neanderthalensis is in fact extinct, or alive, well and living in Bournemouth.

Would you also be of the Jedi Knight religion perchance?  That would give the census takers something to think about. 8)

Offline Redroger

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #228 on: Wednesday 23 March 11 13:26 GMT (UK) »
I believe J2 is quite rare and is one of the haplogroups that's possibly associated with the Roman occupation of Britain.

As Julius Caesar said:-

I came, I saw, I left.

or someat like that  ;)

There is no evidence that the Romans changed the DNA makeup of Britain significantly. Mediterranean J1 people are much more likely connected with more recent immigrants, ie medieval & ashkenazi Jews, Italians, etc.

I have had an email from FTDNA, my results should be available  around the 29th April, and I shall then know   whether or not Homo sapiens Neanderthalensis is in fact extinct, or alive, well and living in Bournemouth.

Would you also be of the Jedi Knight religion perchance?  That would give the census takers something to think about. 8)
Two replies: 1) The more serious, regarding the DNA makeup of the British population being largely unaltered by migration, this is precisely the point made by Stephen Oppenheimer in his book "The origins of the British", now available in paperback,his thesis is that the modern population of Europe originated in "Refuges" from the last Ice Age. The one most affecting us being situated in what is now the Basque area of Northeastern Spain, the others situated in the Alpine region of Italy/Austria, and what is now the Ukraine had less effect.
2) The less serious, No I am not a Jedi knight, I left the question blank for the very simple reason I just don't know.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)


Offline supermoussi

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #229 on: Wednesday 23 March 11 16:17 GMT (UK) »
Two replies: 1) The more serious, regarding the DNA makeup of the British population being largely unaltered by migration, this is precisely the point made by Stephen Oppenheimer in his book "The origins of the British", now available in paperback,his thesis is that the modern population of Europe originated in "Refuges" from the last Ice Age. The one most affecting us being situated in what is now the Basque area of Northeastern Spain, the others situated in the Alpine region of Italy/Austria, and what is now the Ukraine had less effect.

That theory is several years out of date (like his book) now.

The theory that has replaced it is that the early N Europeans that hunted wooly mammoths, lived alongside Neanderthals and were the first to settle Britain, retreated as you say to the "Refuges" in the last ice age and then repopulated N Europe. They were largely made of YDNA Haplogroup I and mtDNA Haplogroup U.

However, c 5000 yrs ago there was a large influx of horse-riding, charioteering, farming peoples from the Black Sea (and Asia before that). They moved through the Anatolia (Turkey) and S Balkans areas into central Europe around Germany/Switzerland. Their population exploded and they expanded rapidly N, E, S & W mainly in the late bronze & iron age. As they overran areas where the early hunter gatherers lived it is thought that (as is usual with invasions) they slaughtered the men and stole their women. They were largely comprised of Y Haplogroup R1 and mtDNA Haplogroup H + a few others.

I represent pretty much the average result of this theory, ie. I am R1b on my paternal side so am descended from the "recent" bronze/iron age immigrants but am also mtDNA HG U5 which means my maternal forebear was one of the "ancient" hunter gatherers who hung out with the Neanderthals around Finland or there abouts. In effect a cross between Old and New European.

I have probably explained it very badly but I think this site might enlighten/confuse you more:- http://www.eupedia.com/europe/origins_haplogroups_europe.shtml


Offline Tisy

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #230 on: Thursday 24 March 11 08:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi,

We too come in well to this theory - y-DNA is R1b1b2a1b4c1 (L20) - possible Alpine Celt;  mtDNA - H (HVR 1) - still to test further so not sure about the ancient stuff yet.

Cheers,

Carol

Offline Redroger

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #231 on: Thursday 24 March 11 13:19 GMT (UK) »
Interesting Supermoussi. Do you know if oppenheimer has said anything further on the suject since his book? It is only two years since I attended a lecture by him in Winchester on the subject. Things certainly move fast!
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Offline supermoussi

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #232 on: Friday 25 March 11 08:45 GMT (UK) »
I don't think he has done much since then. According to his wiki entry he acted as consultant to a TV series in 2009 but other than that nothing else. It sounds like his book writing was a semi-retirement activity so guess he may have fully retired by now?

It is a shame as people still read his book but subsequent discoveries have knocked some of his ideas (but not all of them) on the head. An updated version would help clarify things no end.

Offline Redroger

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Re: DNA testing - genetic genealogy
« Reply #233 on: Friday 25 March 11 12:12 GMT (UK) »
Interestingly it's now been found that Europeans share a small percentage of DNA with Neanderthals:

http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1987568,00.html

Ozzy Osbourne was found to have some Neanderthal DNA when he had his full genome sequenced, and we probably all have a little bit of Neanderthal DNA but it doesn't show up on the Y-chromosome or in mitochondrial DNA or at least it hasn't done so far! We await the news from Bournemouth with interest!



  A further reply on this thread stated that the DNA transmission seemed to be in one direction only, from Neanderthal to Sapiens Sapiens, to me this suggests that the Neanderthal DNA was likely transmitted by rape of modern human women. Does anyone agree or am I simplyfying the situation?
Supermoussi: Can you suggest any later books on the subject please?
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)