DNA testing - genetic genealogy

[Redroger]

Thanks for the tip about free tests for British men Debbie.

[nickgc]

Thanks for the heads up Debbie.  $119 via FTDNA with a Surname study is much preferable to the normal $169.  There was a slight glitch with my previous (SMGF) test so I think I'll have the 37 marker Y test done again.

Nick

[dazer_man]

Hi,

Can anyone tell me what the nomenclature is for the following subclades of the R1b Haplogroup:-

R1b-North/South 1 and
R1b-North/South 2

e.g. R1b-S26 I believe is R1b1b2a1a3

Also, does anyone know where there is a table that translates the different subclade group names?

I am predicted to have the following probablities 34% R1b-North/South 2, 33% R1b-North/South 1 and 16% R1b-S26.

[DevonCruwys]

The R1b subclades don't have names like North and South. Where did you get this prediction from? Have you had any SNP testing done? Haplogroups and subclades can only be confirmed  by SNP testing. It is particularly difficult to predict R1b1b2 subclades from haplotypes as the R1b1b2 haplotypes all tend to be very similar. R1b1b2 broadly divides into two major subclades P312 (which roughly correlates with the Celtic fringe and is particularly prevalent in Ireland) and U106 which seems to originate in the Benelux countries. S26 (also known as L1) is a subclade of U106. You can see the most up-to-date version of the R1b tree on the ISOGG website:

http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

According to current nomenclature S26 is  R1b1b2a1a1c. While the tree is still being worked out the nomenclature keeps changing and it's easier to use the shorthand forms (eg, R1b-U106). There are numerous R1b projects:

http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_haplogroup_projects

Have you tried Whit Athey's haplogroup predictor:

http://www.hprg.com/hapest5/index.html

If you want to know your subclade you really need to get the proper SNP testing done. The best option is Family Tree DNA as they have the widest range of tests and all the haplogroup projects. SNP testing can also be done at Ethnoancestry.

Debbie

[dazer_man]

Hi Debbie,

Many thanks for your very quick detailed reply.

I used the Jim Cullen predictor with my 20 Genebase markers.

http://members.bex.net/jtcullen515/TempTable.htm

I have just ordered a 37 marker Y-test from FTDNA.

With Genebase I have never matched more than 12 markers with anyone in their database.

I will try Whit Athey's predictor sometime tomorrow.

My paternal gt grandad doesn't have a father's name on his birth cert, so I am intrigued as to where his dad may have come from and what his surname might be.

Happy new year!

Steve

[dazer_man]

Whit Athey's predictor gave me 100.0% R1b.

Steve

[DevonCruwys]

Hi Steve

You just managed to get a kit ordered before the sale ended! GeneBase only have a comparatively small database. With R1b1b2 I would hope you will get some matches with other surnames as FTDNA now have such a huge database. The difficulty is trying to decide which matches are relevant. You're really hoping for a match with someone with ancestors from the same area as you. If you're interested in the deep ancestry, it's worth ordering the deep clade test to refine the haplogroup. Once you're in a haplogroup project you'll be able to keep up with the latest research and if new SNPs are discovered you can order them on an a la carte basis if they are likely to be significant.

Debbie

[dazer_man]

Debbie,

I have been looking at my Genebase results more carefully.
I do have a few 18/20 matches with the GD=3.  I have never had a 19 or 20/20 match.  The 12/12 I mentioned was a perfect match for the 12 markers but I checked the match in the appropriate surname project and for the 20 markers only 14 matched with the other 6 being 1 position out.

In SMGF the best match I get is 16/18.

Hopefully the FTDNA 37 marker test and larger database will come up with better leads. I ordered this through my surname project.  Will I be able to compare my DNA to others using geographic location?  I've seen some stunning mappings for the name 'Logan'.

Steve

[DevonCruwys]

Steve

12-marker matches are meaningless. I have some R1b men (Western Atlantic Modal Haplotype) with over one thousand matches at 12 markers. The Niall of the Nine Hostages signature has even more 12-marker matches. 12-marker matches mostly fall apart with the addition of extra markers. 25-marker matches with different surnames also usually tend to become mismatches at 37 markers.

You should also try uploading your GeneBase results to GeneTree (the commercial arm of SMGF) and Y-search: http://www.ysearch.org

Only around one third of FTDNA customers upload their results to Y-search so you really need to be in their database to compare with everyone else. There are lots of geographical projects. I've compiled a list of all the British projects I know of here:

http://cruwys.blogspot.com/2009/08/dna-projects-for-british-isles.html

You can join as many projects as you like. You can start joining projects once you have your kit number and password. The FTDNA results pages have a map showing place of origin of most distant known ancestor but it is very much reliant on project administrators getting participants to supply data.