Family in India John O'Brien b 4 Dec, baptised 11 Dec 1853, Kurachee, Bombay

[originQuest]

Oh this is getting difficult lol!  I am not sure what to say ... well, I think I can assume that the inital baptism of John O'Brien in 1853 does belong to me.  The date, location, name and father's name fit.   Of course, the father's occupation does not.

Are there any army records on ancestry I can use to search further ... or make this search easier?  Not sure where to begin to move on from this.

And what of Catherine, the mother and wife?!

Oh my head ...

Peter

[Lynntony]

I am not sure what to say ... well, I think I can assume that the inital baptism of John O'Brien in 1853 does belong to me.  The date, location, name and father's name fit.   Of course, the father's occupation does not.

Actually, I would have thought that with John being a ship's carpenter, and you say that his marriage cert states that his father Patrick was also a ship's carpenter, then the only thing that doesn't fit is the army career, which would suggest that the army career is the red herring! What makes you think that he joined the army - given his occupation on the marriage cert of John?

As I said earlier, the medal rolls at http://www.dnw.co.uk/medals/resources/medalrolls/indianmutiny/ actually give 16 Patrick O'Briens listed as being involved in quelling the Mutiny. All this proves is just how common the name was/is. Surely it's equally possible that your Patrick O'Brien was in no way involved with the army and carried on his duties as carpenter until his death, sometime before his son's marriage. If you have no proof of a military career, ie family records etc, the only thing you are going on is an extremely common name, and the India connection. Sons often carried on the trade of their father and John, and his son, were also ship's carpenters.

Kurachee/Karachi would not have been an uncommon port of call for shipping and, dare I say, it was not uncommon for men to take native women for wives. The women would take an Anglicised name upon converting to Christianity and this could also explain the lack of any prior knowledge of the wife - and how she came to be in Kurachee. This is speculation and there to be proven or not. The idea is to get you to think of all possibilities! That's what makes genealogy so addictive!!!

Oh my head ...

The headache will go away - the problem may take a little longer! 

Tony

[originQuest]

Thank you Tony for your kind advice and support.  I think I have caused some confusion ... when you 'quote' me, I was saying that the army occupation is the red herring. Is that not how it reads?  It is late here and I am tired trying to solve this puzzle I have, so excuse me if I am not making sence.

So, all I do have to go on is the name, and location ... not a good starting point! Ha.

It is an interesting and happy though that I may have Indian blood in my viens.  Very interesting indeed.

I will keep you informed here.

[Lynntony]

It is late here and I am tired

Same here! I think I misread your "red herring" as the ship carpenter when you meant the army.

It is an interesting and happy though that I may have Indian blood in my viens.  Very interesting indeed.

TV personality Alistair McGowan had to contend with the same issue so you're in good company!!

Tony

[originQuest]

Hi again,

Due to a range of reasons, I've not taken on any further research on this line but I would be interested in saying more.

Considering what was written here, are we suggesting that the baptism found in 1853 ISN'T for my ancestor John (1853-1923)?

One step at a time.

[originQuest]

Hi again,

I'm still not much further forward with this research and would like to get a bit more info on the time of this family in India - I've even looked on the Crewe lists for the Merchant Navy for John O'Brien, but can't find anything.

Would anyone be able to help?

[brionne]

Can you confirm that the 1911 John O Brien 58 joiner Middlesborough ,born Kurracee,is your relative please.
If this is correct, the John O Brien Catholic baptism by Father Andrew,,,in church,,,at Kurachee Bombay India 11th Dec 1853,is the same person.
Father PaCk O Brien,mother Catharine.  64th Reg.
As regards your query over the fathers occupation,this Patrick was a soldier,after discharge did joinery
Have you traced whereabouts of his regiment.

[originQuest]

Hi Brionne,

Thank you for your reply and time to look into this - Yes, I can confirm that the John O'Brien in 1911 living in Middlesbrough with his wife Margaret aged 58, a joiner joiner is my relative ... he seems aged does vary from c 1851-1857 it seems over the years, and he seems to appear in the trade union papers in 1910s, but again his age varies.

With this, yes, it seems correct that his baptism is the one on 11th December 1853.

The trouble I'm having is trying to find out more about Patrick and his occupation and what became of them before and after John's birth.

Thank you

[brionne]

Family Search have this birth, possible further child for Patrick and Catharine.
   Father Patrick O Brien mother Catharine O Brien
   Daughter, Ellen O Brien.
   Born 11th June 1856
   Baptised 21 June 1856     at Belgaum Bombay.

Possible marriage,
   Patrick O Brien to Catherine McMullan 15 March 1847,Newtonards Down Ireland.
   Grooms father,Patrick.
    brides father, Patrick McMullan.  vol 9,   page 194.


There is a blog on here british-genealoghy.com  which mentions someone having 64th Reg family members.

Regiments.org have 64th leaving Ireland for India in 1848.

Forces War Records paid site,have two Patrick O Brien DEATHS both 1857 in 64th Regiment.North
Staffordshires.  [this has already been mentioned]