Author Topic: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland  (Read 14983 times)

Offline Maggie1895

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HELP required please: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #27 on: Sunday 24 April 11 10:02 BST (UK) »
Drew,  I think I’m now a bit confused about what is established and what is conjecture.  Hopefully there will be other, more expert, people who can make suggestions so to summarise what we have so far:

Margaret Carrick, MS Brown or possibly Gillan, died in 1911 and on her death certificate her husband, John Carrick, gave her parents as John Brown and Margaret Ferguson.
You have tracked her in her marriage through the 1901 census back to her wedding, and she gives her place of birth variously as Holytown (1911) or Glasgow (1901, 1891)
On her wedding day in 1881 she gave her parents as John Brown and Jane Brown, MS Gillan, both deceased, and her age as 20 which would put her birth around 1861 +/- a year.
That is probably all that is confirmed.

- We’ve found possible candidates for her in the 1861 and 1871 census but we can’t prove which, if any, is her, and some of them have already been ruled out
- We haven’t managed to find a birth that fits what details we know, either as Margaret Brown or as Margaret Gillan, and neither have we been able to find deaths for John or Jane between Margaret’s birth and her marriage in 1881
- There is a marriage between a John Brown and a Margaret Ferguson in 1864, when John is listed as a Bachelor.    If that is her father, it may be that Margaret is her stepmother and the young Margaret lived elsewhere, perhaps with her own mother Jane Gillan    The information that her mother was Jane Brown MS Gillan came from Margaret herself and if her parents had not married she might not wish to publicise the fact in front of her new in-laws?     That’s pure conjecture

I think I may have found Margaret on the 1881 census.   She is a boarder, living with the Hainy family at 48 Douglas Street, Partick, working as a bleacher, which fits the information on her marriage certificate, though it is not the address she married from.    So far, so good, but Margaret’s age, the month before her wedding, is given as 18.   Her place of birth is given as Hamilton and there are no identifiable relatives in the household.     Reference is Parish: Partick; ED: 5; Page:  30; Line: 13; Roll: cssct1881_257; Year: 1881.

That might mean her birth was nearer 1863 than 1861, but it can also mean that the enumerator was given the information by Mr or Mrs Hainy who may have guessed her birth date and place.

Trying the same search for Margaret Gillan yields nothing – there is a Margaret Gillan in Partick but she is a dressmaker, living with her parents who are co-incidentally John and Margaret but that’s John Gillan not John Brown.     Plus the fact that a dressmaker was a better position than a bleach worker, so unlikely to have taken a downhill career trajectory in one month.

Not sure what to make of all this, but one possible theory might be that Margaret was born to John Brown and Jane Gillan in the early 1860s.   John Brown then may have been the bachelor who married Margaret Ferguson in 1864.   If Jane and John had both died by 1881 when Margaret married but her stepmother lived on that might explain why Margaret Ferguson was given as her mother on the death certificate - the information was given by her husband, not by Margaret herself. 

I’m hoping that some of the Lanarkshire experts can come in here and see if that hypothesis bears water, or if I’ve missed something.

Everybody - help please!
Census information Crown Copywright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk / National Archives of Scotland

murray12

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Re: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #28 on: Sunday 24 April 11 12:02 BST (UK) »
Hi Maggie

Your right about the facts so far. I also agree with your analysis and theory regarding Margaret's birth. It would be helpful to find her in the 1871 census. As you say, the best theory is that she was living with her mother at that time as the father had married in 1864.

Thanks for everything to date -really appreciate it.

Offline Maggie1895

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Re: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #29 on: Sunday 02 November 14 08:59 GMT (UK) »
Welcome to Rootschat, Richard5588.
Not sure if you posted on this thread because it is of interest to you or if you just came across it, which is how so many of us find the site.
Do take a look around the site and feel free to add any information you have to any of the threads.  Alternatively if you have questions, post them - lots of people happy to help.
Census information Crown Copywright www.nationalarchives.gov.uk / National Archives of Scotland

Offline drew5555

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Re: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #30 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 13:23 GMT (UK) »
 Apologies for starting another thread earlier today.



Reply #23 on: Saturday 23 April 11 14:29 BST (UK

Maggie - following on from your post

I since discovered Margaret Brown applied for poor relief in 1886 when she said she was 24. In that she gives her parents names as John Brown a coal miner and Jane Devine. I found an entry of marriage in 1856 for these two in Newarthill, Bothwell. But still trying to track down Birth record for Margaret.
You mention a Jean Viney being mother to a Margaret Brown in 1860. Viney sounds like Devine - could this be linked or is there another birth record for Margaret in 1861 - 1863 showing these parents?
 


Offline MonicaL

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Re: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #31 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 16:33 GMT (UK) »
Drew, I think this is the family entry for the family where mum Jane shows with maiden name Viney:

John Brown 40 coal miner b. Lanarkshire
Jane Brown 32 b. Tyrone, Ireland
John Brown 16
Ann Brown 10
Mary Brown 4...Forgie for mum's maiden name? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQ4B-RPR
William Brown 3 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQYV-158
Margaret Brown 1 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:FQHM-P8W
Mary Little 55 visitor Co Tyrone Ireland
Address: Legbranock, Holytown, Bothwell

Monica
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Offline MonicaL

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Re: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #32 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 16:36 GMT (UK) »
...In that she gives her parents names as John Brown a coal miner and Jane Devine. I found an entry of marriage in 1856 for these two in Newarthill, Bothwell. But still trying to track down Birth record for Margaret...
 

Have you looked at the original marriage entry on SP to see what that said? https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:XTT1-Z8Q

Monica
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Offline drew5555

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Re: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #33 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 21:19 GMT (UK) »
Hi Monica

I have looked at the 1856 marriage cert. John Brown was married before. Previous wife's name not given.
In the poor law application in 1886 Margaret Brown states that John Brown and Jane Devine are both dead. Strange 5 years before on her wedding cert. she gives mother's name as Jane Gillan. Very strange.

I need to find Margaret's birth c1862

drew

Offline drew5555

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Re: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #34 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 21:20 GMT (UK) »
This name Viney - could this have been mistranscribed given incorrectly - too much of a coincidence?

Offline sancti

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Re: census lookup request please 1871 lanarkshire, scotland
« Reply #35 on: Tuesday 04 November 14 21:40 GMT (UK) »
What was the address of John and Jane when they married?