Author Topic: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster  (Read 30837 times)

Offline Allanfearn

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #9 on: Monday 09 May 11 16:58 BST (UK) »
For Nostalgic One

Try the will of Alexander Clark, Haymarket 1810 (born Inverness 1744).    He was in the East India Company,  the brother of James Clark, painter, Naples, (born Inverness 1742, died Naples 1800)who packed Sir William Hamilton's second collection of Greek antiquities in Naples in 1799 for homeward despatch in HMS Colossus, laid on by the local navy C-in-C, a certain Horatio Nelson.   I think they were the sons of John Clark and Mary Mackintosh in Inverness - she was possibly one of the Dalmigavie family.  James Clark certainly stayed with Alexander Mackintosh when in England (possibly also in Sherrard Street, Golden Square,  before Mackintosh moved to the Haymarket), and  so did Alexander - there is correspondence from James in the National Archives of Scotland which indicates this.    Alexander Clark's will includes bequests to Ewen Clark MacIntosh, Mary Ann Clark McIntosh, (since both are to complete their education  it may be that this Ewen Clark Mackintosh may not be the bankrupt) and to a number of other MacIntoshes and Clarks.   I think it may be that Alexander Mackintosh's wife had been an Inverness Clark, and he was certainly regarded by the Inverness magistrates as worth soliciting for subscriptions to both the Inverness Royal Academy and the Northern Infirmary.  Another kinsman, not mentioned in Alexander Clark's will, but who assisted him in executing his brother's, was Robert MacBean, a Tortola merchant ( Alexander makes a Tortola bequest) who bought the (Mackintosh) Culclachy Estate near Inverness, renaming it Nairnside.    I've never been able to discover whether these Clarks were in fact ( as is generally thought in Inverness) descendants of the Provost Alexander Clark who was unseated for backing the Jacobites in 1715, or indeed which Inverness John Clark ( there are at least three possibles, but not much conclusive about any of them survives)  their father was.    I'd welcome any further information.

Offline Allanfearn

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #10 on: Monday 09 May 11 20:46 BST (UK) »
Additional speculative suggestion.  Might Mary Ann Clark Mackintosh have been a cholera victim?   And might  not Mexico City be a possible place to look for her brother?   A Ewen Clark Mackintosh was, in partnership with a merchant called Manning, a very influential British presence in Mexico City during the 1830s and 1840s, having arrived there in 1826. 

Offline Allanfearn

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #11 on: Tuesday 10 May 11 10:29 BST (UK) »
Sorry to be dense, but I had only just begun to look at the Alexander Clark will when I found you had posted about the family.   I think, having studied it a bit more, it probably does establish that Ewen Clark Mackintosh and  his sister were the children of Ewen Mackintosh and Elizabeth Mackintosh ( there are legacies to both of them).  So it might not add much to what you already know.

Offline Nostalgic_One

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #12 on: Friday 13 May 11 16:28 BST (UK) »
For Allan:

Apologies for my slow response.  It's been an exceptionally hectic week here but I am still very much actively researching and am extremely grateful for your messages.  You don't sound dense at all.  I am fairly new to genealogy and there's masses there that I didn't know and can't wait to explore further.

I've been researching the family of James Mackintosh (b. 1792, Westminster).  I have a tree on Ancestry called 'The Mackintosh Family of Totteridge Lodge, Hertfordshire' which is fairly small at present but all fully referenced.  James was the son (I'm fairly certain the oldest son) of Ewen Mackintosh and Elizabeth Bouchier.  I have baptism records for twelve children of theirs in total.  Three of them had the middle name Clark, which must have been after the Alexander Clark you mention.  I've been wondering for a long time where Clark came from as clearly it was not their mother's name. 

As you mention, son Ewen Clark Mackintosh (b. 1802, Westminster) went to Mexico where he became British Consul.  His brother Henry Alexander apparently followed him there, as did one of James' sons (nephew William Lyster Hay Mackintosh) although the latter died shortly after his arrival.  I haven't got very far yet with tracing the Mexico branch of Mackintoshes (any tips greatly appreciated).  I do know that Ewen Clark Mackintosh had three sons whom he sent home to board at Harrow as they appear on the school's register.

It is only thanks to this thread that I know that Ewen Mackintosh's father was Alexander Mackintosh and that the family owned the saddle business Mackintosh & Co., which I now know was later passed to Ewen's son James (although I don't believe it went any further than that).  I have an address for them as 10 Haymarket (today nextdoor-but-one to the Theatre Royal) but did not know that Alexander lived previously in Golden Square.  So, once again, thank you!

How do I go about accessing the will of Alexander Clark and the correspondence you mention?

Mackintosh - originating from the parish of St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster in the late 1700s and extending to Greater London, Scotland, Jersey and Mexico.


Offline Allanfearn

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #13 on: Saturday 14 May 11 00:51 BST (UK) »
For the record, the will is National Archives PROB 11/1511, and can be obtained from their shop online, though I think I may have managed to send it to you.   10 Haymarket is certainly the address I first had for Alexander Mackintosh, but the Golden Square address is from before 1791, as his subscription to the Inverness Royal Academy of ten guineas was forwarded to the Cashier by the army agent John Ogilvie, of Ross and Ogilvie, Argyll Street, in the spring of 1791 with a number of others, and an unnumbered  Haymarket address is indicated then.   The Academy minutes from 1788, which include a list of possible subscribers to be approached simply describe him as "Alexander Mackintosh, Saddler".   That's how I first came across him, but when I found he was in the Haymarket, very close to the centre of fashionable London, it seemed likely that he was a well known saddler, so I asked the London museums about him and drew a blank, even from folk who claimed expertise.   How did you find out he supplied royalty?    I think I may have somewhere in Inverness (I'm not there at the moment) a note of his apprenticeship - when I can dig it up I'll let you know the details.

Offline Nostalgic_One

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #14 on: Saturday 14 May 11 12:07 BST (UK) »
Alexander Mackintosh is listed in this 1794 directory under his 10 Haymarket address:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:pP1_kkYtEmsJ:www.londonancestor.com/kents/kents-m.htm+alex+mackintosh+sadler&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=safari&source=www.google.co.uk

His business card from 1786 is apparently included in this collection of papers relating to Thomas Jefferson:

http://ead.lib.virginia.edu/vivaead/published/uva-sc/viu00007.component

As for Mackintosh & Co. supplying the royal family, my only source is this:

http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:4Sm90KPbHdQJ:www.electricscotland.com/history/other/birnie_richard.htm

It appears that they later supplied the army, as Alexander's grandson James is listed in the 1841 census as an 'army saddler,' then in the 1851 census as a 'retired merchant' with 'saddler' crossed out.  By 1861 he was simply a 'fundholder.'

I'd be very interested to see the note of Alexander's apprenticeship.  I'm guessing it took place in Inverness and that that was where he was born?  I'm guessing that he too was buried at St. Martin in the Fields but Ancestry has no records of his death as yet.  Do you know how to go about looking for a will for him and therefore perhaps finding out whether he had more children besides Ewen?  In particular, there is much evidence of a Colyear Mackintosh also living in Westminster at around the same time and I've often wondered whether he was a brother of Ewen's.
Mackintosh - originating from the parish of St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster in the late 1700s and extending to Greater London, Scotland, Jersey and Mexico.

Offline Nostalgic_One

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #15 on: Saturday 14 May 11 12:28 BST (UK) »
Also, many thanks for sending the will, although I must confess I found it very hard to read!  I find it surprising that there aren't more Mackintosh children mentioned (unless they're there and I just couldn't deciper them).  I have baptism records for the following children of Ewen Mackintosh and Elizabeth Bourchier, all from St. Martin in the Fields:

James (b. 1792)
John (b. 1794)
Alexander (b. 1795)
Thomas (b. 1797)
Elizabeth (b. 1798)
Hannah Clark (b. 1800)
Ewen Clark (b. 1802)
Robert (b. 1804)
Mary Ann Clark (b. 1806)
Henry Alexander (b. 1808)
George William Daun (b. 1812)
Catherine Louisa McDermott (b. 1813)


Mackintosh - originating from the parish of St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster in the late 1700s and extending to Greater London, Scotland, Jersey and Mexico.

Offline Allanfearn

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #16 on: Saturday 14 May 11 13:42 BST (UK) »
Birnie seems to have been from Banff and born in 1760.   There's apparently(I've been Googling)  a local source referred to as "Imlach" which I don't know but which seems to associate him with Alexander Mackintosh whose daughter he is said to have married.    Electric Scotland is looked after by the Clan Fraser Society of Canada, which has very good genealogists.  He must have had a fairly long association with Mackintosh if the partnership was dissolved in 1802.  I'll see whether I can dig anything up from what I have here, but I don't think I have much that would help.   Prinny's order seems to be the sort of thing that would crop up in a Birnie obituary, quite possibly based on stories he would have told to his friends.

There are two accessible sources for wills.    A Scot with a Scottish estate who made a testament would have the will proved posthumously at the local commissary court and the will would then be recorded in full by the court.   Not many made testaments.   The surviving records are accessible through the Scotlandspeople website, which is tricky to operate and works on a system of pre-purchased credits, but will track both names and places within date limitations of your choice.   The will itself, when you get it, is quite expensive -£5.   The Registrar General for Scotland subcontracted the management to a subsidiary of DC Thomson, the publishers of the Dandy and the Beano, and their customer service is not the best, but their contract is apparently moving towards its expiry date.   What is actually in the document might vary widely.   The most common result is an inventory, not so much of real property as of debts, owed and owing.  Family information is far from invariably present, though if it is it will be detailed.   The more prominent the testator, the more likely it is to be detailed.

Many American and West Indian Scots who made wills tended to have them processed in their place of residence at death if their estate was wholly there too, which means, for example,  that many West Indian wills, if they have not deteriorated from bad storage conditions, have to be consulted on the spot.  If any British property or legatees furth of Scotland were affected, they were proved in the Prerogative Court of Canterbury and will have progressed to the PRO, now the National Archives, at Kew.   Their holdings can be searched online, and once you get used to it, the system is easier to operate than the Scots one, though there are pitfalls - the initial search is within 50 year time bands, for example, though there is an advanced search which, if you are fairly sure about dates and places, can cut down the sorting of the results, and it is not a good idea to enter both forename and surname - you get very large numbers of hits if you do, which take a great deal of going through.   A surname is usually enough if you know the rough date of death and likely place.   You pay nothing until you order, and the rate is £3.50 per will  (but of course they have a larger clientele).   A very good zoom function is a great help.   The copy clerks were only human, and it's sometimes very hard to be certain about names if they were tired or overloaded.

I note the list of Ewen's children.   Alexander Clark's will - 1810 - mentions a male child then unchristened, and he doesn't seem to fit with the list.    Do you think others might have been christened elsewhere?

I think perhaps I should try to send you James Clark's will, which confirms the relationship between Dr Anderson and Robert Anderson the Inverness silversmith (but not much else, though it's a fascinating document if you are interested in fine art and the way the Italian-Grand Tour market in Greek/Etruscan vases worked at the end of the eighteenth century - Alexander doesn't seem interested in that sort of thing, apart from his nine volume book on Herculaneum).   I'll do so when I have checked I actually have all of it.   There's an incomplete draft in the National Archives of Scotland - and even this one wasn't accepted as wholly authentic by the PCC - they thought the original, in Naples, would be needed for more than a grant of administration!  I don't have notes on them here, but there are some James Clark letters in the NAS which I seem dimly to recall are from 1792, when he was in England,  and may mention things which might be happening in Haymarket around the time of James's birth.   I'll get my notes on them to you when I can. 



Offline Allanfearn

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Re: St. Martin in the Fields, Westminster
« Reply #17 on: Saturday 14 May 11 14:25 BST (UK) »
Sorry - I should have said that the National Archives (Kew) website for wills and the like is "documentsonline".   I'm too old to think of websites as entities in themselves.