Gibraltar - Military Births

[km1971]

Hi Sue

I have found a reference to them having a 2nd Battalion, from 1804 to 1817, who were involved in most engagements from Doura (May 1809) to Toulouse (April 1814), including Salamanca in July 1812. The 1st Battalion were in the Cape and Ceylon.

As you now have a regiment you could go to Kew and look for him in the muster books. Researching a long service using musters is time-consuming, and therefore expensive if you have to pay for a researcher. However you may be able to shorten the effort by taking this period as read and checking the 83rd in (say) 1818 and beyond to get his discharge date. Then look at the 1790s to see if he was in the 83rd when they were reformed - although they appear to have been in the West Indies during the 1790s – but they would have kept a depot in the UK, and maybe they wanted his tailoring skills at headquarters. Or he could have been in a different unit and only joined the 2nd/83rd Regiment later on.

A man’s first entry in the musters of a particular regiment will say if he was a recruit, or give the name of any previous unit. Likewise his final entry will say if he was discharged (and maybe with or without pension), or was transferred to another unit. As you are looking for his parents you could just concentrate on his enlistment. The musters will not give his parents. But if you are lucky his first entry in a muster may give his parish of birth, and age on enlistment. Failing that you should see where the Sergeants were out recruiting.

If his first muster does not give you anything useful, you will have to find his last entry, as again they often give parish of birth etc.

Another option could be to look at the church records in Stamford and Great Baddow looking for other military BMDs. One may give a regiment, or with an officer’s name you can usually find the regiment from army lists and the London Gazette.

Ken

[Dean1]

Hi Ken,

Thank you very much for that.   It gives me a way to move forward and, with a bit of luck, I may be able to get to the NA in the not too distant future.

Sue

[Dean1]

Can I just ask one more thing of you who have so kindly helped me

I have found on a freepage genealogy site the Family History Library Film numbers for the 83rd Regiment from 1760 - 1854 - re-raised as the Royal Glasgow 83rd round about the time James joined up.   I also have a list of the 82nd  from 1760 - 1854 - it was suggested the written document I have may not be entirely accurate and I suspect this is so because the 82nd was raised in Stamford, Lincolnshire from Lincolnshire volunteers.

What I really wanted to ask is, on these FHL films does it list the names of ordinary soldiers or is it just officers - does anyone have any experience of these films.

Sue

[mommabear]

Dean1 you mentioned a list of contacts for Gibraltar and was waiting to see what the reply was on here as to where it was going.

I for one would be very interested as I have a brick wall with a guy in Gibraltar.

[Dean1]

Hi,

It is a very long list and no one said where to put it so I haven't.   The website I got it from is:

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.weurope.gibraltar.general/529.1.1/mb.ashx

There are one and a half pages of contact information with E-addresses and snail mail addresses.   If you can't get into it let me know and I will type out on a pm.

Sue

[km1971]

What I really wanted to ask is, on these FHL films does it list the names of ordinary soldiers or is it just officers - does anyone have any experience of these films.

Hi Sue

Sorry, I have not seen these films.

I am having trouble with your information. The 82nd were first raised in 1757, renamed the 72nd in 1764, and disbanded in 1768.

They were raised again in 1777 in Lanarkshire and disbanded in 1783.

They were again raised in 1793 in Stamford, but recruits came from Lancashire, Yorkshire, Staffordshire and Worcestershire as well as Lincolnshire. They fought in the Peninsular, but were not at Salamanca.

A second battalion was raised and went to Gibraltar in 1795, but they were disbanded the same year. Re-raised in 1804 and acted as a Depot to the 1st Battalion. They were in Horsham (north Sussex).

You do realise that you could spend two days at Kew, find when he first enlisted and discover it does not give his place of birth. Personally I would concentrate on the parish records for Stamford.

Ken

[Dean1]

Thanks Ken.

You are probably right.   Fortunately for me (or not as the case may be) I live near Stamford and visited a couple of weeks ago - beautiful place!   I was told, just as I was leaving and it was too late to do anything more, that the library in Stamford has copies of the Bishop's Transcripts etc - I think I may well go back.   The bonus is that it is free unless you want to make copies.

The files I quoted are Mormon files and you request the reels of ?microfilm on line and they are delivered to your house (you pay the postage that is all) and then you go to your nearest Mormon centre (Kings Lynn is mine I believe) and use their viewing facilities.

I find the Foot regiments numbering quite ambiguous at times - i.e. different things said on different websites about disbandment and reformation.   However, I do take your point about the 81st not being at Salamanca - I did notice but thought perhaps Lord Hills column had borrowed him!!!

Off to Stamford then.   Thank you again.

Sue

[Dean1]

To all who helped with this problem and were rightly suspicious of James Rowland's document re his service.   He was not in the 83rd as his document states!   He was a Loyal Lincolnshire Volunteer and probably recruited in Newtown, Montgomeryshire (he was supposed to have been born there but haven't found evidence of that yet) but as of yesterday I know that he became part of the 81st Foot (6th btn which I can find nothing about) and there just may be some info on him on FindMyPast - he is certainly listed on there.   He said he was wounded in the hip at Salamanca and that he fought in Lord Hill's Column.   I think this is somewhat jumbled info from him.   He was a Sgt Master Tailor and as such was battalion staff and not normally in the field.   However, when on operations or at war, the Master Tailor and other btn staff may be deployed as the CO wished, presumably to help out in Lord Hill's Column - however, as someone suggested he may well have joined the 83rd later but I suspect not.   He had no pension either.

A BIG THANKYOU TO ALL WHO HELPED ME.

Sue

[km1971]

Hi Sue

The 81st Foot were formed in 1793 and in 1802 they absorbed the Loyal Lincolnshire Volunteers. If he was in the latter then it suggests he was born or at least was living in Lincolnshire. You should contact their Record Office to see what they have.

Lots of Volunteers were enlisted into Regular regiments so that they could be sent overseas if required. It was usually for seven limited service without a pension at the end of it. There  is a muster covering 1799 - 1813 for the LLV in Kew. They will almost certainly also have the musters for the 81st Foot.

I have no idea what "6 btn" means. No regiment had six battalions until the end of the 19th Century.

Did we establish if he was alive in 1847? I think that question was asked as a veteran of the Napoleonic Wars was given a medal if they were still living in June 1847.

Ken