Heward in Holme/Holmfirth

[drodgers34]

My grandma said 'own' not Holme and apparently 'Holne' was the ancient pronunciation.

Plenty of historical clues in those broad accents

Any more of those "Lumpers" type stuff, Holmemoss ? My grandmea had a verse which said "Holne Pienets. marsden XXX and XXX behind-wallers. I think pienets is a name for small game birds

Did a little research on Marsden and the name was Marsden Cuckoos - theres a reference in wikipedia

The other place I dont remember but the nick-name "behind't'wallers" sticks in my memory - I wonder if the nickname had any sinister conaugtations ?

(edit)Was thinking some more, then slaithwaite came to mind.

But from Wikipedia they reckon its Slaithwaite Moonrakers, Golcar Lillies ,Linthwaite sows "sairs" (probably where the sair inn name comes from)

Stll cant 'own' where the behind't'wallers are from ?

[Holmemoss]

I have now seen my father, who at the age of 90 said, I am a Yorkshireman not a bloody poet.

I took it that he doesn't know!

[bykerlads]

Have never heard of "behind't'wallers"- it has a hint of " the back of beyond" or, more sinisterly, "beyond the pale".

Just remembering bits of dialect from childhood in Holmfirth, does anyone recall a character called" Rye Shink"?( no idea how it's spelled, only heard it spoken). He was a shambolic character who had, I think, a woodyard.
His wife had a large brood of children of uncertain paternity- when they were too noisy, the tale went that he would threaten to send them back to their fathers if they didn't shut up!

[carolanne]

Isn't it lovely to have memories like this,I've just loved reading the last few comments.
Carolanne

[drodgers34]

Very Royston Vasey - I enjoyed that show before it got increasingly stupid in later series - filmed in hadfield - I have ancestors from there too.

Back on the Hewards/Howards. The name was concentrated in Holme and surrounds. They seemed to be prolific breeders and from the census and PRs came form Holmwoods area.

The names not too common in huddersfield - but doesnt appear much in hearth tax or earliers stuff - not as common as earnshaws and hinchliffes for example.

My theory is the first howards would have come from the glossop area - very common there and there were aincient trade routes over' tops

I think farmers in holmfirth even recently would have been just as likely to attend agricultural shows etc over'tops as on the huddersfield side of the pennines
Haven't been able to find any hard evidence though

[bykerlads]

Interesting comment about links with Holmfirth area and over'top into Lancs- we've probably got too much of a tendency to think in today's geographical/travel terms.
Agricultural shows etc. would of course been an ideal opportunity for young people to meet future spouses, thus bringing new blood into the area. ( though I do suspect that one of my Burnlee Wimpennys who wed a Dewsbury lass in the early 1800's would have had his match to some extent arranged by his clothier father whilst doing business at the Cloth Hall in Hudds.)
Also,for a working man  in search of work to go on foot or by cart from Glossop or Hadfield to Holmfirth/Holme/Hade Edge would have been just as likely as coming from Hudds.

[Holmemoss]

My father was a little preoccupied the last time I saw him as the water (watter) tank was leaking in the loft. I have got more sense out of him this time.

Holme pienets
Marsden cuckoos
And Hade Edge back o' wallers

In explanation:

Holme band's uniform was black and white; hence pienets (magpies). Brass band, of course.

In and around Holmfirth (and probably other places) you were 'cuckoo' if you were a bit daft. The story goes that some contraband was put in the cut (canal) in Marsden. The Police saw them when they were trying to retrieve it with a net so they said they were trying to catch the moon's reflection.

My father says it was back o' wallers not behind wallers. Hade Edge was quite remote and courting couples used to go there to be alone. People use to hide behind the walls to see what they were up to.

My Dad is 90 so if there is owt else then ask now!

[drodgers34]

Thanks Holmemoss. Your dads memory sounds better than mine !!

My Gran would be 106 if alive today - she used to mind me a fair bit as a young'un so passed on her bits of wisdom

"Down the drain or up in smoke" was where all my grandads money went


http://www.werelate.org/wiki/Person:Alice_Howard_%285%29

[Holmemoss]

P*ssed it up against a wall in local parlance!