traveling musicians

[balistic]

hello everyone,
                      just joined the board looks great, i am after some advice on how to trace/find details of a group of Italian musicians that were in my area in 1851 (census)
one of whom stayed and became one of my ancestors.was this a regular thing,ie groups of touring musicians as later on 1859 i find them traveling on a ship bound for London from bourlougne,again as a group of 12  musicians. maybe someone has some idea,s!!
many thanks.

[Greensleeves]

Hi Balistic and welcome to RC.  There are some really helpful people in here so I hope someone can give you some useful advice.

If you scroll down the various boards you will find one called Special Interest Groups and below that, there is a section for Travelling People.  It might be that people who post in there have the sort of information you need.

Regards,
GS

[alpinecottage]

Another approach may be to look at local newspapers for the time, either at the local record office or online.  Reports were often included of local concerts and other events.  A newspaper called The Era is particularly good and is online on the Gale Newspaper Archive, accessible possibly through your County Library Service.

[alpinecottage]

In 1851 it was reported that "the number of foreigners in London was 6000 to 8000, principally Italian musicians or image dealers, and also Jesuit priests"

In 1860, Charles Babbage, the mathematician had a run-in with a "posse of German and Italian street musicians" who disturbed his calculations by playing and "they were fined accordingly".  The writer of the article had no sympathy for Babbage as he felt that if Babbage needed the silence of the tomb, he shouldn't live in central London!

These were just two of several newspaper reports between 1851 and 1860 thrown up by entering "Italian musicians" into Gale Newspaper Archive.

[writeride]

Anybody still looking into this query?  I am interested in the documents you found, as this is my ancestor's story also. Having found him in France I am now looking for him in England (Francesco Domenico Bosco, in France/England in 1850s and 1860s).  Strongly advised is the book "Little Slaves of the Harp," by John Zucchi.  Portions of it are online if you search GoogleBooks. It is a very well-researched study of the "white slave trade" of Italian child street musicians (essentially street beggars) who during a certain period in late 1800's were bought and sold from Italy to many countries.  This will put EVERYTHING in a new light!

Valerie

[alpinecottage]

Hello writeride

The original poster, balistic, has not been on this forum since 2011, though he/she should get a notification of your reply.

I found the two quotes on the Gale Newspaper Archive, which can be accessed for free through some County Library Services in UK and in some other countries too (eg Australia, to name one).  There is also the British Newspaper Archive which has more and different newspapers on, pay to view, but not too expensive.

[writeride]

Hello alpinecottage,

Thank you for letting me know about Gale Newspaper Archive; I was on British Newspaper Archive last night and was disappointed it was a pay service.  I was aware of Babbage and the presence of some 1,000+ Italian musicians in London from other sources, but had hopes I could find many more articles, as I have in U.S. newspaper archives (paid ones)  Now knowing "my man" was in France on his way to England in 1863 from documents found in France, perhaps it will be worth it to pay up for archive access in England.  Have you used British Newspaper Archive when searching such obscure subjects and found it worthwhile?

Many thanks,
Valerie

[alpinecottage]

British Newspaper Archive is also available via Find My Past (also pay per view, but you can get a subscription too).  You can search for free on BNP and FindMyPast and you get a little snippet of the article.  I think it is clearer via FindMyPast, but that may be my imagination!  FindMyPast is also free to search at some libraries and record offices in UK (I don't know where you are, so difficult to be specific)

The thing about newspapers is the random quirky nature of them.  Like today, if there is little else happening, you get cat-up-a-tree stories, but if something nationally important is happening, then the stories focus on that issue.  Gale has various 19th C provincial newspapers, but the BNA has a wider selection over a wider timespan.  There is also the Times Archive, which is separate and The London Gazette (free).  Also of course, Google and Google Books.

I presume you know about Freebmd (civil registration in Eng and Wales 1837 onwards) and the censuses on Ancestry etc and parish records on Family Search (also free)?

[writeride]

Hello alpinecottage,

It is very kind of you to take the time to write with such thorough information.  I have just started looking for Italian street musicians in England (1850-1866, though for my man, 1863 arrival in England is most likely), so I am brand new finding my way around new resources.  You saved me an enormous amount of time learning what the resources are, so thank you so much!  I looked in London Gazette but found only tiny general mention in two spots about street musicians (maybe I'm not doing it right); BNA may be worth the money (I have several archive newspaper subscriptions for U.S. papers and they were all worth the cost); will try Gale and Times Archive today.  My Bosco ancestor was not an important person as to appearing in articles or on lists of street musicians, so I look instead for adults (likely padrones) with whom he is known to have traveled, names like Briglia, Lapetina, Panella, Lauletta and Savino.  The padrone stories made big news in London as well as U.S., so not sure why I'm finding so little.  I found 50+ articles in American newspapers, esp. New York Times, on the Italian child street musicians and the padrones for time period 1860-1885; it took a lot of looking but was fascinating stories.

I am not averse to paying for records access like FindMyPast (I'm already on Ancestry.com), but realize that I may find very little as these street musicians were often "clandestine immigrants," too underage for formal documents of their own, often traveled under papers belonging to others or had changed names, traveled constantly, would have ducked out of official censuses if possible (illegal mendicants/street beggars), and are more likely to be on an arrest list in a police office than anything else.  I looked in FindMyPast, and so far found only one possible record in 1861 in Salford, Lancashire, but wrong first name of "Jno" Bosco.  I had great hope I'd find my Francesco (Frank?) Domenico Bosco on a ship departure list, probably leaving Liverpool in 1866 for either New York or New Orleans, but had no luck so far.  The "Little Slaves" book describes in detail where in London the padrones kept their children, but I do not have that reference to hand right now.  Again, all these resources are new, so I'll work harder on it soon.

I am in United States, though perhaps some libraries here would have subscriptions to these archival newspapers and FindMyPast.

Again, many thanks for your speedy help.

Valerie