Woking Invalid Prison in Surrey

[Valda]

Hi


Woking Invalid Convict prison Surrey 1859- 1889 was built for physically and mentally ill convicts. A female convict prison was built alongside in 1869.

From the beginning of the nineteenth century, government prisons were built and run by the prison department of the Home Office. These prisons housed convicts. All prisoners given sentences of transportation (ended finally in 1868) or a period of penal servitude - two years or more hard labour, were called convicts or in reality 'government' prisoners. All other gaoled offenders were prisoners not convicts. By 1853 only 12 prisons across the country were government prisons.
In 1877, the county gaols were brought under government management through the Prison Commission which finally became responsible for all prisons and therefore all prisoners in 1898. 

The 1881 census clearly 'labels' William Blay as a convict - it is an important distinction for which archive holds the records, as The National Archives is the repository for government records.

Where prison registers survive and survival rate is very patchy up to 1878 at least The National Archives is more likely to hold the registers for the convict prisons. Under the Public Records Acts 1958 and 1967 the Home Office has a duty to preserve its records of historical and public interest, including those of prisons, which came a little late for the survival of many earlier prison registers. From 1878 onwards where prison registers survive they are more likely to be with county record offices who are also more likely (though TNA does have some) to hold the earlier county prison registers.

The convict system meant that convicts after sentencing were kept in solitary confinement (the separate system) for a minimum of nine months. After this period, they were transferred to other government prisons to be used as labour for public works. Pentonville prison was one of the prisons where convicts were sent to be placed in solitary confinement and TNA does hold some photographs (not all have names) for this prison.

http://www.historyhome.co.uk/peel/laworder/penton.htm



Regards

Valda

[Jane Masri]

I did search the SHC catalogue for the prison but couldn't find anything, perhaps you could have another go!  The dates at TNA were very sporadic & I didn't see any after 1876.
To be honest I find searching TNA catalogue very frustrating, even when I'm at Kew I have to keep running to the 'help' desk 
Good luck,

Jane

[iluleah]

Hi Jane

Yes I find the NA information/catalogue difficult to navigate...so I am pleased it isn't just me When I was at Kew they told me they didn't have the prison records for Woking, after I got the copies of the Lincoln Assizes from them.....I will keep looking and hopefully will eventually find something that will help.

I am not even sure where he was sent to at first, as with now learning some more in reading the information about invalid prisons, it seems prisoners were sent to them as they were unfit for hard manuel labour, such as having TB, all I know is that he was in Woking invalid prison in the  census in 1881, so he could have been sent anywhere prior or after that date.

I thought I had got something from TNA yeterday putting his name/date in the search on prisoners but the information that came up was sadly not 'my' William Blay'

[iluleah]

Valda

Thank you for that information...I missed reading your post when I answered Jane, that is very useful and informative and I will have a look at the web link you have given

Regards

[Valda]

Hi


The series of records PCOM2/141-151 in The National Archives catalogue covers Woking prison registers, as already identified by Jane

141 = 1846-1859 (not sure what these registers are as I thought the prison didn't open until 1859 but it was built by prisoners so these may be registers for those prisoners who did the actual building?)
142 = 1859-1861
143 = 1869-1874
144 = 1874-1878
145 = 1878-1884
146 = 1884-1889
147 =  prisoners indexes volume 1? undated
148 =  prisoners indexes volume 1 indexes
149 = prisoners indexes volume 1 undated
150 = prisoners indexes volume 1 undated
151 = prisoners indexes volume 2 undated


In the 1850/60s there were 12 governement prisons. Once a male convict was sentenced they would be sent first to Wakefield, Leicester, Millbank or Pentonville and kept in solitary confinement but provided with work in their cells such as weaving, tailoring shoemaking. From there they were transferred to another convict prison (though they might be sent to Pentonville first before being sent on) to complete their sentence of hard labour at Chatham, Portland, Portsmouth or for invalid convicts Woking and Dartmoor.
Females went usually first sent to Millbank for up to a year and then to Brixton or Fulham (later Woking female prison). Male juveniles were sent to Parkhurst.


For male convicts there were three separate periods of 'confinement'
Separate confinement (designed to break their spririt and make them compliant) a minimum of 9 months
'Hard' labour - usually public works but better behaved convicts could be employed in baking or cooking for instance
Ticket of leave (prisoner licences) where prisoners did not serve their full sentence in prison. Many prisoners were let out early on licence. These documents are very detailed and later licences (1871 onwards) usually have photographs. Male licences held at The National Archives PCOM3 1853-1887). 770 boxes covering over 45,000 individual prisoner licences, so a date is absolutely essential for a search, though there is an index of sorts in PCOM6 (not sure it covers the period you would be interested in - seems to be a gap after January 1881).


At this time local county prisons (excluding debtors prisons or prisons which also held debtors up to 1869) did not usually hold prisoners for sentences of more than two years. They either executed their prisoners for capital offences or they were there for less serious crimes with sentences of usually months only and not more than two years at most.


Surrey History Centre are less likely to hold records for a convict (government) prison administered and run by the prison commmissioners (and paid for by central taxation) and not a prison (lock up, Bridewell, House of Correction/Detention, County gaol) run by local county officials and paid for by local taxation certainly before the 1880s when the two prison systems began to become more merged and it increasingly becomes more likely any surviving prison registers would be deposited in county record offices (Home Office policy for prison registers specified in the C20th Public Records Acts). The sort of records SHC hold for prisons (and they seem relatively sparse) are for instance for registers of deaths and a surgeon's order book for Horsemonger Lane gaol Newington Southwark (closed in 1878 but then the county gaol).
Wandsworth prison records are held by the London Metropolitan Archives because by the time that prison (opened in 1851) presumably deposited its registers, the metropolitan area of Wandsworth had transfered from Surrey to the County of London.



Regards

Valda

[Jane Masri]

Valda, you're always such a mine of information!  Please tell me how you accessed the piece numbers.  I got stuck once I had got to PCOM2 

Jane

[iluleah]

Valda

Thank you for that information, I always thought the 7 years sentence he receieved was harsh however the more I read and understand about  the time frame, prison life and conditions...I think he was 'lucky' to have committed his crime or been charged 'after transportation' for his crimes as I am sure they would have transported him had he been charge/sentanced a few years earlier.

I also wondered if The British Postal Museum & Archive. Are likely to have any information about him, I have no experience of records they hold and if they hold  records such as investigations they have done. He was a Postmaster and his crime was embezzlement, so I am presuming it was the Post Office who instigated the initial investigation/reported the crime.

[iluleah]

I just wanted to share having done a blanket search on the interent for Stickney and come up with some additional information to investigate further

http://www.stickneyhistory.co.uk/res/Documents/thepostoffices.pdf

and under John Smith : http://www.stickneyhistory.co.uk/res/Documents/stickneypeopletransported.pdf

What a family! Wonder who they belong to?

[Valda]

Hi Jane


I think it really helps that I also own a copy of David Hawkings book

Criminal Ancestors - A guide to historical records in England and Wales published 1992 (getting a bit old now but still extremely useful)

with some very useful appendices which I tend to check first before searching TNA catalogue and other repositories

Appendix 2 Calendars of prisoners and prison registers and journals in county record offices and other local repositories
Appendix 4 Records in the Public Record Office
Appendix 5 Criminal records held in Police archives for the period up to 1900
Appendix 6 Criminal records currently held by the prison service.


iluleah

I think the best record for following details of William Blay's crime would be the local newspaper. It is more likely the local police investigated the crime once it had been reported. In the C18th his crime of embezzlement would have been a capital offence reduced by the C19th first to transportation then imprisonment. Along with the 7 year sentence he served he would lose his pension and the offence would cast shame on himself but also his family as they lost their place in local society.

Post Office Archives

http://www.postalheritage.org.uk/collections/archive/familyhistory/


Regards

Valda