confused

[flst]

Hold on,first of all,let's recap on what information you've got.I assume you have a copy of Mary's marriage certificate to John Shepherd? William Fraser (crofter), is down as Mary's reputed father.This proves that William & Elizabeth weren't married to each other! There are only 2 possible births for a Mary Mavor.I have purchased copies of both which turned out to be the same birth.One was registered in Old Meldrum & the other in Ellon. Elizabeth was living at Broomfield, Ellon at that time. It was common for an illegitimate child to be registered under their mother's maiden name & to be brought up under another surname.  In instances like this it's always easiest to search for the least common surname first! The 1881 census that Malky spotted is not for your ancestors. I checked out the 1891 & 1901 censuses  & there is a patient Mary Ann Shepherd in the Royal Asylum. Her birth date & place of birth doesn't tie in with your Mary though. 1891 = born c1851. 1901= born c1852, Tarves. Don't know where cookies4 info on 1901 census comes from?
flst

[ter153]

hi flst.thanks very much for that.my mary mavor fraser later married to john shepherd was in aberdeen asylum on and off from 1890-1907,she died there in 1907 she is the same mary you helped me with a few months back.i got stumped with the changing names mary fraser shepherd mary maver shepherd!! went down a couple of wrong routes with this bit of family,her son james later took on the name fraser as a middle name later in life which made me look in the wrong place for him too.so no much wonder im confused.ellon would be correct for mary,discovered she lived at floweryvale dudwicke ellon? thanks for your help much appreciated

[cookies4]

Hold on,first of all,let's recap on what information you've got.I assume you have a copy of Mary's marriage certificate to John Shepherd? William Fraser (crofter), is down as Mary's reputed father.This proves that William & Elizabeth weren't married to each other! There are only 2 possible births for a Mary Mavor.I have purchased copies of both which turned out to be the same birth.One was registered in Old Meldrum & the other in Ellon. Elizabeth was living at Broomfield, Ellon at that time. It was common for an illegitimate child to be registered under their mother's maiden name & to be brought up under another surname.  In instances like this it's always easiest to search for the least common surname first! The 1881 census that Malky spotted is not for your ancestors. I checked out the 1891 & 1901 censuses  & there is a patient Mary Ann Shepherd in the Royal Asylum. Her birth date & place of birth doesn't tie in with your Mary though. 1891 = born c1851. 1901= born c1852, Tarves. Don't know where cookies4 info on 1901 census comes from?
flst

I got my info from Ancestry -

1901 Aberdeen Royal Lunatic Asylum

Mary Shepherd age 36
Patient
Born Old Meldrum, Aberdeenshire
Age:   36

Is this where your Mary Mavo(e)r Fraser died ter153?

That led me to the 1865 birth of Mary Mavor.

Have you looked at her marriage entry and does it give an address?

I think this could be her with her father at Methlick in 1881. This Mary Fraser is with the same family in 1871.

1881 Inverebrie, Methlick -

William Fraser   54 Farmer born Udny
Ann Fraser   62
Mary Fraser   16 born Old Meldrum
Isabella Fraser   52

Main reason being I can't find a Mary born to this couple in 1865 and wee Mary was not with her mum in 1871 or 1881. Another reason is that Mary married at Methlick.

Regards,
Nel

[flst]

Thanks Nel, I can confirm that the address given at the time of marriage was Inverebrie!
flst

[cookies4]

Thanks Nel, I can confirm that the address given at the time of marriage was Inverebrie!
flst

Great stuff!

Ann Thow must have had a big heart!!

[ter153]

yes Nel.mary died in aberdeen asylum in 1907,she also gave birth to james while there in 1890,turns out he wasnt the husbands child but john shepherd brought the boy up as his own.dont think ill ever find out who is actual father was! poor mary tho,to end up in an asylum and then end her days there very sad.medical records i have for mary stated that mary was '' rather stupid'' i do wonder if mary ever knew her son.

mary did marry john shepherd at methlick july 27th 1885
        thanks very much for your help nel,flst

[bleckie]

ter153

Hi

I would take what the records say with a very large pinch of salt.

I have seen admission records for around this time and it may be a case of her husband keeping his reputation clear. In one case I read the woman was classed as a sexual deviant, it turned out nothing more than she was seeking solice with someone other than her husband.

Remember back in this time all it took was a couple of signatures to have someone committed and once in the system there is no way out.
There was a book published in the 1990's the chap in question was sent to borstal for playing truant from school once he reached sixteen the only place they could keep him was a mental hospital I believe from memory he was in his sixties when he was finally released and he had to fight for that. I wish I could remember the name of the book, perhaps someone else can remember.

Yours aye
BruceL

[ter153]

thanks BruceL,said on her record her sister in law states''that pauper is beyond control and wanders about at night without knowing where she is''further on she says''she wanders very much-was out all night september 3rd and is pregnant to a stranger without knowing something like been in something ward but cant make it out.on one medical cert 1 dr says she is quite stupid another doctor  stated refuses to talk,vacant,and expressionless appearance.laughs cant make it out.nice sister in law i think and it really didnt take much to admitsomeone to the asylum.easy way to get rid of someone from the family you dont like i suppose,poor mary just suffered with learning difficulties or something,thank god things have changed now! thanks bruce for your input,it would be quite interesting to read that book
    Teresa

[flst]

Hi, I'm wondering if John Shepherd applied for poor relief for James? If he did, there's a lot of information you can get off the application form. I know this because my own great grandfather was admitted to the same asylum in 1900 (8 months before his 8th child,my grandfather,was born) His wife had no option but to ask for help. My great grandfather remained in the Royal Asylum until his death in 1917.Such was the stigma about mental health that my grandfather never spoke of his father & it came as a big shock to my mother & her siblings when I uncovered this information!I was fortunate  to get copies of his medical records, from the Northern Health Services Archives, as it gave me a greater understanding of his illness which nowadays would've been controlled by medication. I have also read a book, about life in this asylum, although it was a few decades earlier than when my ancestor was there. It gave me an insight into how the conditions were at that time.
flst