Author Topic: Fornication and baptism  (Read 24569 times)

Offline jaybelnz

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #81 on: Thursday 31 March 11 10:40 BST (UK) »
Well yes - quite a choice you have there!!  ;)

Mr. Hay sounds like another "Holy Willie"

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Offline johnxyz

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #82 on: Thursday 31 March 11 10:45 BST (UK) »
The University of Nottingham has catalogued a set of Presentment bonds (reports by the church wardens to the archdeacon) spanning much of the 1600s. I'll merely offer one sample (Mansfield, 1598 or 1599, AN/PB/292/9/26)

Wyllyam Pecke for having carnal knowledge of his wife Elizabeth Leevesley before marriage; Robert Parker for the like with Dorothie Ludlame his wife (the common fame is that this Dorothie committed fornication within this twelvemonth with one Thomas, an ostler at the Swan, and also with one Robert Baker, an ostler at Robert Hawlls; and so both these men have braggingly confessed before divers people); Wylliam Morfet for fornication with Agnes Willgouse; Frances Sherston for carnal knowledge with Alice Stones his wife, before marriage; Wyllyam Barloe for not coming to church for twelve months, and yet every day at one alehouse or another; Anne Langeforthe for fornication with [no name given]; Richard Hybbert and his wife for 'bawdry', because on Holy Rood day last one Jo. Bawmeforthe and Loyes' daughter (both well known to all the house, she having another husband and he another wife), lay there all that night together as man and wife, and all the next night also in one bed; the first night Richard Hibbert was not at home but the second he was.

There are many many more.

Offline Seoras

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #83 on: Thursday 31 March 11 11:03 BST (UK) »
majm,as regarding the two wee Scots babies.I can only find any further information on the second Alexander (my 5xG grandfather)the first Henrietta I can find no information on,possibly she didn't survive and the fornicating parents seem to disappear.Alexander does grow up and marry in Linlithgow.His first two children were twin girls one of whom he named Henrietta.At his marriage there is only a mention of the bride's father.

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SCOTLAND: Wardlaw Steen/Stein Tweedie McBride McEwan Pate/Peat Brown Somerville Bishop Farier/Ferrier Wood  Torrance Gibb Ross Dunlop Downs Richardson Ramsey Story Snaddon/Sneddon Auld Allan McLean McInnes Mason Law Lawson Kerr Cockburn Christie Ballingall Wardrope Weir Wallace Scott.
IRELAND: Welsh Clifford Lee Allingham Keane Dale Robinson Greer McVey Bingham Skelton Carson Broomfield Clark McEwan/McKeown McCreary McLaughlan.
YORKSHIRE: Cudworth Smith Cope Coulton Hainsworth

Offline Wiggy

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #84 on: Thursday 31 March 11 11:06 BST (UK) »
John nxyz - I just love that clip!! 

What a brilliant record of the doings of the place!!
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.


Offline suey

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #85 on: Thursday 31 March 11 11:28 BST (UK) »
Quote
A child of a marriage cannot be illegitimate or a bastard.
As the latin phrase has it:Mater semper certa est, pater est, quem nuptiae demonstrant

"The mother is always known; the father is the one whom the marriage points out"; in other words, fatherhood, paternity, is established by marriage; that is, the legal presumption is that a child born to a married woman is a child of her husband, even if that is not actually the case.
Stan


Not so the husband has the option to show that he could not be the father (for instance he could have been overseas for a year, or he could be sterile).
The law allows for those and similar exceptions.

A lady in my husbands tree registered five children at her local register office all with her husbands (her married) surname...he'd been long gone btw.  She then hops accross to a neighbouring register office, presumably with the father of the said children and registered them all again with their true fathers surname.

Getting back to baptisms, I have a couple in Sussex who get married and baptise their baby on the same day!

Again in Sussex my 3x g grandparents had 11 children born out of wedlock, it caused the children no end of problems they did not know which surname to use and turn up in records under either or both surnames ::)
All census lookups are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Sussex - Knapp. Nailard. Potten. Coleman. Pomfrey. Carter. Picknell
Greenwich/Woolwich. - Clowting. Davis. Kitts. Ferguson. Lowther. Carvalho. Pressman. Redknap. Argent.
Hertfordshire - Sturgeon. Bird. Rule. Claxton. Taylor. Braggins

Offline Wiggy

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #86 on: Thursday 31 March 11 11:35 BST (UK) »
Saved two trips to the church then didn't they!!    ;D ;D
Gaunt, Ransom, McNally, Stanfield, Kimberley. (Tasmania)
Brown, Johnstone, Eskdale, Brand  (Dumfriesshire,  Scotland)
Booth, Bruerton, Deakin, Wilkes, Kimberley
(Warwicks, Staffords)
Gaunt (Yorks)
Percy, Dunning, Hyne, Grigg, Farley (Devon, UK)
Duncan (Fife, Devon), Hugh, Blee (Cornwall)
Green, Mansfield, (Herts)
Cavenaugh, Ransom (Middlesex)
 

 Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.

Offline suey

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #87 on: Thursday 31 March 11 11:46 BST (UK) »
Saved two trips to the church then didn't they!! ;D ;D

I wonder if the vicar gave them a discount ;D !

I still can't fathom why my 3x greats never married...too busy fornicating to get around to it I suppose  ;D ;D ;D
All census lookups are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Sussex - Knapp. Nailard. Potten. Coleman. Pomfrey. Carter. Picknell
Greenwich/Woolwich. - Clowting. Davis. Kitts. Ferguson. Lowther. Carvalho. Pressman. Redknap. Argent.
Hertfordshire - Sturgeon. Bird. Rule. Claxton. Taylor. Braggins

Offline Seoras

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #88 on: Thursday 31 March 11 11:55 BST (UK) »
Just ahead of their time Suey :)
SCOTLAND: Wardlaw Steen/Stein Tweedie McBride McEwan Pate/Peat Brown Somerville Bishop Farier/Ferrier Wood  Torrance Gibb Ross Dunlop Downs Richardson Ramsey Story Snaddon/Sneddon Auld Allan McLean McInnes Mason Law Lawson Kerr Cockburn Christie Ballingall Wardrope Weir Wallace Scott.
IRELAND: Welsh Clifford Lee Allingham Keane Dale Robinson Greer McVey Bingham Skelton Carson Broomfield Clark McEwan/McKeown McCreary McLaughlan.
YORKSHIRE: Cudworth Smith Cope Coulton Hainsworth

Offline Deb D

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Re: Fornication and baptism
« Reply #89 on: Thursday 31 March 11 12:32 BST (UK) »
Saved two trips to the church then didn't they!! ;D ;D

I wonder if the vicar gave them a discount ;D !

I still can't fathom why my 3x greats never married...too busy fornicating to get around to it I suppose  ;D ;D ;D

*Sigh!* I have the opposite problem; - my gt grandma married her second husband in Queensland in 1911 ... but then in 1965/6, on the eve of their move into a nursing home, and only shortly before they died within a month of each other, ... they got married again, in NSW!  My mother says no-one in the family was aware of the first marriage.

Maybe they thought the first marriage license had expired?  ::)
I live in Sydney, Australia, and I'm researching: Powell, Tatham, Dunbar, Dixon, Mackwood, Kinnear, Mitchell, Morgan, Delves, & Anderson