John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING

[nyteowl]

I think I may just wait till the marriage certificate arrives before I do any more searching, hopefully it will help :-)

[majm]

I think I may just wait till the marriage certificate arrives before I do any more searching, hopefully it will help :-)

You could get searching on other lines in the mean time 

Did you order a transcript from one of the official transcribers ?

Cheers, JM

[nyteowl]

Thanks for the hint majam, I'll organise what I have & go from there :-)

Update, yes I've ordered the marriage cert of John & his first wife, hopefully it will help shell more lights :-)

[FinderMitty]

My  husband is a descendant of this couple from John (the son) Phillips' first marriage to Ellen Langley.  We don't know much about John Phillips or his father John Phillips and we'd love to know more.  I have the marriage certificate of Ellen and John from 1884.  You've probably already bought it by now and found out that it gives no information on John Phillips' side of the family.  Have you found out anymore since this time?

[Anne W]

Hi all,
        How old is your John Phillips at his 1884 marriage? And do you have any definite info on where he was born?

         The reason I ask is I have a stray John Phillips who I've never been able to trace. This John Phillips origins would be deliberately murky, I would think, as there was probably a bit of bigamy going on!

         He was the son of James Henry Phillips and Charlotte Waite, born 1866 in Berrima. James Henry and Charlotte were cousins, James being the son of Henry Phillips and Sophia Waite, and Charlotte was the illegitimate daughter of Sophia's brother William Henry Waite and Ellen Neenan.

         John Phillips was the youngest child of James and Charlotte and soon after his birth, Charlotte left her husband AND children with William Chalker, a neighbour. They ended up in Bungendore.

         I don't know what became of James, but I wouldn't be surprised if he took up with some other woman. After all his wife had left him with 4 young children. The Waite/Phillips family were among the original settlers of the Moss Vale/Sutton Forest area. The King family were also an old settler family from this area and the two families intermarried. It wouldn't surprise me if James took up with one of the King girls after Charlotte left him!

        It was the combination of PHILLIPS and KING that got me interested in your problem. Is the death certificate the only reference to your John Phillips parents names?  DCs can be wildly inaccurate.

Bye
Anne

[FinderMitty]

The death certificate is not held by me (nyteowl holds that), but the details match with the family information we have.  That is, the dates and names of his wives are accurate so we are sure we have the same person. Whether the information on the DC about his parents is accurate is another question - I do agree with you that DCs often contain errors.  However, it's pretty much all we have to go on.  I own the marriage certificate from the first marriage.  John Phillips is simply listed as "Full age" and his brid as "under 21 years".  The bride's father's name is given but no information is given on John's parents.  So we cannot learn his birth date or parents' names from the MC.  The DC says his age at death (assuming for a moment they've got that right) and it's working back from that that we have assumed he was born in 1861.  Which would mean (if all was accurate) he was 23 when he married his first wife in 1884.  BUT we should add we are looking at TWO John Phillips - the older married to Eliza King and the younger (born approx. 1861) who married in 1884.

[Anne W]

  If he was 23 in 1884 then he can't be my missing John Phillips who would have been only around 18 at the time. It's annoying though as there are a few coincidences. Some of the previous posts on your puzzle say that your John Phillips was a railway worker?
 
   My Phillips family were involved in working for the railways. James Phillips was a farmer, but he seems to be the last of my family to work the original land grants in the Mittagong/ Moss Vale area ( pity that!) His grandchildren worked for the railways all around NSW.

   Bye
Anne

[nyteowl]

JOHN PHILLIPS
DEATH CERTIFICATE No 1935 /016157
10th July 1935
CAUSE CEREBRAL THROMBOSIS & CARDIAC FAILURE
3 MARRIAGES
1ST – LEICHARDT, SYDNEY NSW
2ND ELLEN MARY LANGLEY
3RD MABEL BERTHA HARDCASTLE

Hi, it’s been awhile but I think I may have solved a bit of the mystery.
John Phillips was married 3 times
1st. 1884 Ellen Langley reg no 2188/1884
2nd 1901 Beatrice Ricketts reg no 6970/1901  divorced 1903
3rd 1904 Mabel Hardcastle reg no 7321/1904

1st marriage children –
1st child Esther 1885 
2nd child William 1886
3rd child Louisa 1889
4th child Mildred 1891
5th child Emily 1892

2nd marriage (This is the one I am related with)
1st child Norman John 1894, birth certificate gives no Fathers name only Mother Beatrice Ricketts, but I am beginning to believe John was the father and maybe the pregnancy occurred whilst he was still with Ellen Langley.
2nd child Beatrice Maud 1895

I don’t know of any children for the 3rd marriage as yet, and I hope it helps solve a few of the questions.