Author Topic: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING  (Read 16113 times)

Offline majm

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #54 on: Friday 25 March 11 03:03 GMT (UK) »
 :) 

Sorry for this long post, sometimes it is not possible to be brief, JM

Yes, I do place reliance/worth in the info given by the bride and groom on their marriage, it is first hand from themselves, about themselves .... and when I see several marriages, I tend to rely more on the info from the first one, particularly if the later ones suggest either the bride or groom may have wanted to keep back some info around their previous life. 

If I were spending my own pennies, I would get a transcript of the first marriage, which was registered in the Leichhardt district of Sydney.  (ref 2188/1884)...  Although in those decades some of the registration details were not recorded on the NSW BDM's Reg Gen's logs (particularly missing were the very important family history clues re parentage) ,

BUT the transcript (which will duplicate everything from the Reg Gen's records, and costs less and arrives quicker and is typed up by reliable and experienced transcribers so you do not have to try to interpret old 19th C handwriting yourself)  should at least give you the clues to find the local parish records, and thus FROM THE LOCAL PARISH RECORDS you should be able to clearly establish the names of the parents of that John Phillips and that Ellen M Langley.  (Of course, I am presuming that part of the m.c. was lacking on the Reg. Gen's records as is often the case). 

Again I am sorry for the long post, but here's the very shortest explanation I can make to help you and all RChatters with NSW marriages in the decades leading up to WWI ... Cheers,  JM

Short version of significant history of NSW BDM Registry records .... a snip of one part of their online historical records section, and notice that you are looking at a marriage for 1884  :)
http://www.bdm.nsw.gov.au/familyHistory/historyofRegistrysRec.htm
FROM 1856
Registrar General takes possession of 1834 to 1835 records held by the Supreme Court

FROM 1879
1825 to 1855 baptism, marriage and burial records lodged with Church of England Bishop were handed over to the Registry

FROM 1912
Reconciliation made between Registry and Church records. 158 Volumes of Early Church Records created with approximately 50,000 records.
Registry requests access to the 1856 to 1895 church marriage registers  (this is the period covering that 1884 marriage)

PRESENT DAY
The task of reconciling the Church Records for marriages between 1856 and 1895 was never finalised. Some of the Registry's marriage records from these years still have missing information

So, from that last sentence you can see that this is why I suggest a transcript, and then follow up from that transcript by looking for the local Parish records...
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Offline nyteowl

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #55 on: Friday 25 March 11 03:05 GMT (UK) »
Morning Everyone :-)

The Norman John Phillips who was my grandfather, was not actually a PHILLIPS, (more about that later) , but I do now know for certain his sister Beatrice was the daughter of JOHN PHILLIPS & BEATRICE RICKETTS.

On the certificate it shows John Phillips as a Railyway Employee born in Dulwich Hill
5824/1896  PHILLIPS  BEATRICE M  JOHN  BEATRICE  NEWTOWN

Neil, >>Marriage at Penrith in 1930 Norman John Phillips married Kathleen M Green  referance 924/1930.<<<
Yes this one I know all about, they are my grandparents. :-)

Dundee, the marriage you mentioned REF NO: 6604/1912    PHILLIPS    ELIZA    (HAWLEY) 74 YRS    MARRICKVILLE    MARRICKVILLE  
has also made me wonder, I think I'll have to send away for it to find out.

I may have also found a Death Certificate 16157/1935    PHILLIPS    JOHN    JOHN    ELIZA    RANDWICK  

But this is the best news ever from DUNDEE:-Quote "I did find a John PHILLIPS/Eliza KING marriage in Gloucestershire in 1851."
Where do I go to find this & hopefully get a copy ?

What is the best place to go,  to search Rookwood Cemetery with, I've had no luck there so far ?

Thanks fo your help :-)
nyteowl


majam your a CHAMP :-)
Copeman
McCooey
Phillips
Ricketts
Plunkett
Ballantyne
Bartle

Offline majm

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #56 on: Friday 25 March 11 03:18 GMT (UK) »
Re Rookwood Cemetery

NSW Resources Board here at RChat has good links for Rookwood ! 
 http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,369703.0.html

Fingers crossed

Cheers,  JM  (See, I can be brief !)
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline nyteowl

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #57 on: Friday 25 March 11 03:31 GMT (UK) »
Thanks majam :-)

lol, Looks like Rookwood is overfull, the links no longer work :-(
Copeman
McCooey
Phillips
Ricketts
Plunkett
Ballantyne
Bartle


Offline Dundee

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #58 on: Friday 25 March 11 03:35 GMT (UK) »
Dundee, the marriage you mentioned REF NO: 6604/1912    PHILLIPS    ELIZA    (HAWLEY) 74 YRS    MARRICKVILLE    MARRICKVILLE  has also made me wonder, I think I'll have to send away for it to find out.

This is a death registration in 1912 - I THINK it might be Elizabeth HOWLEY who married Andrew PHILLIPS in 1869, but this is just a guess.  I doubt that it has anything to do with your family.  There are a lot of Eliza/Elizabeth PHILLIPS who died in NSW.

I may have also found a Death Certificate 16157/1935    PHILLIPS    JOHN    JOHN    ELIZA    RANDWICK  
I think you already have this death certificate  ???

The Worcestershire (not Gloucestershire - my mistake) marriage cert for John PHILLIPS and Eliza KING will not tell you anything of any use, and may not even be related at all.  You first need to establish the names of your John's parents from a source other than his death certificate, and that would be his first marriage cert.  You can do a search for the marriage here https://www.familysearch.org/#form=advanced-records

Debra  :)

Offline miabar

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #59 on: Friday 25 March 11 04:10 GMT (UK) »
Death 1898  Newtown
Murray Sarah M 
Mother: Sarah M   
Father Not Listed

Death 1889  Newtown
Murray James K 
Mother: Christina
Father: John 

Offline nyteowl

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #60 on: Friday 25 March 11 04:18 GMT (UK) »
My mistake Dundee, I do have the death cert, & other one I have on ,my list as a death cert not marriage (think I need more coffee)
anyway, I have just sent away for the first marriage info : REF :2188/1884  PHILLIPS  JOHN  LANGLEY  ELLEN M  LEICHHARDT

Fingers crossed there are a few more answers on it.
Copeman
McCooey
Phillips
Ricketts
Plunkett
Ballantyne
Bartle

Offline majm

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #61 on: Friday 25 March 11 04:25 GMT (UK) »
Thanks majam :-)

lol, Looks like Rookwood is overfull, the links no longer work :-(

OK, then try Google,  keyword "Rookwood Cemetery".... the Independent and the RC websites are working for me, but I know the C of E server has funding issues...

Also, when you have the live links, it would be good if you could send a PM to our Mod with the details so that the Resources thread can be updated.

Cheers, JM
The information in my posts is provided for academic and non-commercial research purposes. 
Random Acts of Kindness Given Freely are never Worthless for they are Priceless.
Qui scit et non docet.    Qui docet et non vivit.    Qui nescit et non interrogat.   
All Census Look Ups Are Crown Copyright from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
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Offline Neil Todd

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Re: John PHILLIPS & Eliza KING
« Reply #62 on: Friday 25 March 11 04:38 GMT (UK) »
 :D Hi nyteowl,

I have had a look through the English census both for 1851 and 1861 in Worcestershire and found several single John Phillips in 1851 and several single Eliza Kings in 1851. In the 1861 their were two John Phillips married to two Eliza's, no way of knowing if their "Eliza's" maiden name was King though.

So there is a possibility but I may stress a hard one to follow up.

Neil
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