Author Topic: Philip BROWN (1838-1919) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors  (Read 8071 times)

Offline Boardies

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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #9 on: Saturday 19 March 11 23:59 GMT (UK) »
Hi Carole,

I've had a suggestion previously that there may have been a sibling, Thomas.  Is he in the 1851 census?  He would have been born before Philip (about 3 yrs earlier).  I know he isn't on the 1841 census but wondered if he was on the 1851?????


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Offline Boardies

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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #10 on: Sunday 20 March 11 00:01 GMT (UK) »
Oh my goodness!!!!  :D

How on earth did you find that?

Offline NorrieG

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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #11 on: Sunday 20 March 11 00:07 GMT (UK) »
Hi Boardies
 its all part of the service you get when you post
on Fife Roots Web, not bad all you answers  in 2 hours.

Norrie G
Gordon,Gillies, Taylor,Kinnear, Wemyss Parish

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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #12 on: Sunday 20 March 11 00:24 GMT (UK) »
Okay - agreed - the service is fabulous.  ;D ;D ;D

From 1841 we had:
    John (F)  age 35 b. 1805/06
    Jean (M) age 30 b.  1810/11
    John       age 10 b.  1830/31
    Elizabeth age 8  b.  1832/33
    Philip       age 3  b.  1837/38
    Jean        age 1  b.  1839/1840
From 1851 we can add
    James
    David
    John

Then the grave inscription we have:
    John (d. 1889)
    Jane (d. 1875, age 74)  which implies b. 1800/1801
    John (drowned at sea)
    Thomas (died Melbourne) age 45
    William and Philip (died in Australia)
    Jane (d. 1918, age 78)  which implies b. 1839/1840

Is it the same family from the 1841 and 1851 census previously found?  There is some commonality, but not everything matches up.  Jean/Jane?

The Philip in Australia is VERY interesting, but I didn't know about a William in Australia, and as I mentioned in an earlier post perhaps a Thomas.

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Offline CaroleW

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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #13 on: Sunday 20 March 11 12:02 GMT (UK) »
Hi

The names Jean and Jane are interchangeable in Scotland.  Daughter Jean aged 1 in 1841 will be the Jane on the inscription. 

Norrie has a question mark against Jane's age of 74 - could it read 72?

You have to allow for some slight variation in ages depending on the month in which they were born relating to the event (ie) census or death

Jean was 1yr in 1841 so if born - say - November 1839 -  she would be 1yr in November 1840 and therefore still aged 1yr when the census was taken in June 1841

Here is another submitted IGI entry

THOMAS BROWN   Birth:  24 SEP 1835   Christening:  22 NOV 1835   Kilconquhar, Fife    Father:  JOHN BROWN    Mother:  JEAN BROWN

Thomas is not elsewhere in Fife in 1841 but re-appears with the family in the full 1851 shown below

Ages from 15yrs upwards were rounded down to the nearest 5yrs in 1841

1851

John Brown 45
Jean  44
Elizabeth  19
Thomas  15
Philip  12
Jean  10
James  7
David  5
John  1


Census Information is Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk
Carlin (Ireland & Liverpool) Doughty & Wright (Liverpool) Dick & Park (Scotland & Liverpool)

Offline hdw

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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #14 on: Sunday 20 March 11 14:25 GMT (UK) »
Hi Boardies. I am interested in anything to do with the East Neuk of Fife, so I thought I would try and help with your query.

Those old headstones with faded inscriptions can be hard to read. John BROWN, father of Philip, died not in 1889, but in 1883, and if you want to look up his death-certificate, it's not in the parish of Elie, but in Earlsferry, parish of Kilconquhar. Although Elie and Earlsferry are physically joined up and to all intents and purposes one town, historically they are in different parishes.

Similarly, his wife Jane BROWN died, not in 1875, but in 1879.

They lived in Liberty Place, Earlsferry, par. of Kilconquhar, and can be seen there in the 1871 census. John was then a weaver, but his death-certificate gives him as "Seaman (Merchant Service)", and when his wife died in 1873 she was described as married to John BROWN, Seaman (Merchant Service).

Jane died on May 24th 1879, and her death was registered by her son Philip BROWN, of 112 West Fountainbridge, Edinburgh. Fountainbridge is just to the west of the city centre, and was the birthplace some years later of Sean "James Bond" Connery! I lived not far away myself at one time.

Philip gave his mother's parents as William BROWN, farm-servant, and Betsy ADAMSON.

John BROWN died on June 8th 1883, and his death was registered by his daughter Jane BROWN, "present", who gave his parents as William BROWN, fisherman, and Helen SCOTT.

Harry



Offline hdw

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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #15 on: Sunday 20 March 11 14:27 GMT (UK) »
Correction to my 4th paragraph above, where I mistakenly say that Jane BROWN died in 1873. Typo for 1879.

Harry

Offline hdw

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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #16 on: Sunday 20 March 11 19:03 GMT (UK) »
This is probably also worth mentioning.

In 1871 John and Jean Brown had neighbours on either side called SUNTER. Christopher SUNTER(25) on one side and James SUNTER(30) on their other side were both stonemasons.

John and Jean's son Philip Brown married Mary Cornfoot, and she was born in 1839 in Kilconquhar parish (prob. Earlsferry, I haven't checked) to James Cornfoot and Elizabeth SUNTER.

Harry


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Re: Philip BROWN (1838-1911) m Mary CORNFOOT - Looking for Philip's ancestors
« Reply #17 on: Sunday 20 March 11 22:06 GMT (UK) »
 :D :D  I wish to THANK Carole, Norrie and Harry for your excellent work. 

I believe between you, you have confirmed the family of Philip Brown, and found parents, siblings and grandparents.

Thank you so much.

I have to now try and find William in Australia somewhere and try and find out what happened to Philip's other siblings who aren't on that headstone.  If you can help with any of this then please "jump in".

 8)

Boardies.