Can anyone work this out?

[LizzieW]

This is an entry in the Parish Records recording the baptism in 1790 of a girl called Margaret.

What I do know is that her father was called Thomas Postlethwaite and her Mother was called Elizabeth Postlethwaite (which was also her maiden name).   Elizabeth Postlethwaite, mother of Margaret had a father called Roger but I thought her mother was called Mary.

So from the following I've worked out that Thomas P was the son of James P.  Is his mother Elizabeth and is it her father who was Wm P?

Then I think the mother of Margaret P was Elizabeth and that she was the daughter of Roger P of Kirkby Waller and Elizabeth and that this Elizabeth's father was Francis James of Kirkby a butcher.

Dr. of
[Father's details] Thos. Postlethwaite of Roosebeck, Husbandman, son of James Postlethwaite, heretofore of Lyndal, Husbandman, by Elizabeth his Wife, dr. of Wm. Postlethwaite of Irelyth, Husbandman, &

[Mother's details] Elizabeth his Wife, dr. of Roger Postlethwaite of Kirkby, Waller, by Eliz. his Wife, dr. of Francis James of Kirkby, Butcher.

I like all the info, but it's a bit confusing.

Lizzie

[RJ_Paton]

My reading of it would be

Thomas Postelthwaite was the son of James Postlethwaite and his wife Elizabeth - this Elizabeth was in turn the daughter of William Postlethwaite of Irelyth

Mothers side - Elizabeth was the daughter of Roger Postlethwaite of Kirkby and his wife Elizabeth  - this Elizabeth was the daughter of Francis James

[veeblevort]

It is confusing, so I've tried to make a chart. I don't know how well
it will display, but here goes.

vv.

Modify: This appears to be in full agreement with Falkyrn, who has
set it out more briefly than I could.

[LizzieW]

Thank you both.  That's what I eventually worked out.  It helped once I'd split Father's details and Mother's details.  On the Lanc-opc site they run into each other.

Margaret Postlethwaite was the sister of my 3 x g.grandmother, but of all the siblings, Margaret's baptism is the only one that gives so much detail.  I know my 3 x g.gran and the following 4 children were baptised at a different church, but there were also 2 other girls older than Margaret who were baptised at the same church as she was.  Oh well, as my mother (and Alfred Lord Tennyson) used to say, "Ours not to reason why, ours just to do or die"

[Cumbrian Pete]

Lizzie,  I have a possible explanation for the baptisms at two churches.

In the Will of James Postlethwaite, father of Thomas, he stipulated that the rents from properties at Roosebeck and Leece should go to support his widow Elizabeth until their youngest son reached the age of 15.

James died in 1781 when his youngest son John (my direct ancestor) was 5.  John would then be fifteen years in 1791.

It seems likely that Thomas and his family lived in the property at Roosebeck until 1791, and therefore the children were baptised at Aldingham.   After the property was sold in 1791, he moved to somewhere in the parish of Dalton where the other children were baptised.  He died in 1841 at Old Park, Ireleth, but I don't know when he moved there.

I have a theory that father James was also born at Roosebeck, son of Henry and Dorothy, but haven't managed to prove it yet.

Pete

[LizzieW]

Pete

That's interesting, is it possible to let me have a copy of James' will, or let me know where you got it from so that I can order a copy.

Do you know what other children James Postlethwaite had?  I only know of my 4 x g.grandfather Thomas Postlethwaite, I haven't researched any others.   

Do you know if there is any connection between James and Elizabeth Postlethwaite the parents of Thomas and your ancestor John (we know from Lancs-opc that her father was William Postlethwaite - you think James' father could have been a Henry Postlethwaite.  Then unless I've got it wrong, Thomas Postlethwaite, son of James, married someone also called Postlethwaite, daughter of Roger.  Surely there must have been some connection here too.

These Postlethwaites are so confusing.

Lizzie

[Cumbrian Pete]

Lizzie,

There are 10 recorded children from the two marriages of James Postlethwaite.

Jane (1752-1834) married William Bell, a husbandman of Newton-in-Furness.

James (1753-1779) married Jane Weatherburn.

Dorothy (1755-1819) married firstly to Robert Sill, a husbandman at Knapperthaw, then to Abraham Slater, a farmer at Swarthmoor Hall.

Betty (1757-1824) married Thomas Ormandy, a blacksmith in Lindal-in-Furness.

Margaret (1760-1770) died young.

Thomas (1761-1841), a farmer at Old Park, Ireleth, married Elizabeth Postlethwaite.

William (1765-1834) may not have married; there isn’t a wife or any surviving children mentioned in his Will.

Henry (1767-1842), a labourer in Ulverston married Mary Russel, all assuming I have the right Henry.

Margaret (1772-1838) married William Dixon of Corney, who later was a husbandman in Lindal.

John (1776-1864), landlord of the General Burgoyne in Gt Urswick, married Elizabeth Dixon also of Corney, and possibly sister of William above.

James senior married Ann Gibson  on 8-May-1751 at Dalton.  The date of his marriage to Elizabeth Postlethwaite is problematic  though, with both conflicting and missing information, so I’m not sure which are Ann’s children and which are Elizabeth’s. 

Most Furness Wills are held at the Lancashire Record office at Preston, including those of James senior, his sons Thomas and William, and Elizabeth Postlethwaite senior’s father William.  I’ll pass you the notes I made from these four though.  Most Kirkby Wills are held at the Borthwick Institute, York, as it was a Peculiar.  The History of Kirkby group has however put many Kirkby Wills on-line though, including some Postlethwaite and James Wills.

Postlethwaite is a very common name in Furness, and I haven’t managed to connect up the three sets mentioned in the Dade baptism at Aldingham.

Best wishes,

Pete

[Cumbrian Pete]

Hi Lizzie,

I think Roger Postlethwaite's Will is on the History of Kirkby site - I think he is the one from Bankhouse, dated 1769.

Pete

[LizzieW]

Thank you for all the info Pete.  The fact that James Postlethwaite married twice, to Ann and Elizabeth, ties in with births of children shown on Familysearch.org.  I've just found the marriage to Ann Gibson in 1751 but I couldn't find a marriage to Elizabeth Postlethwaite.  Was she married before she married James?

I'll look at the rest of the info you've provided tomorrow, it's too late to take it all in now.

Lizzie