Looking for info on John Mullen-Lanarkshire (probably)

[CabSauv]

I am trying to trace the parents of a John Mullen born in 1916  in Scotland. He was a rifleman in the Cameronian Regiment (Scottish Rifles), and married an Emily Clements in 1939 in London with whom he had several children. The father of the John Mullen born in 1916 was also called  John Mullen and was a coal miner. I think both were born in Scotland, possibly in the Cambuslang area. The John Mullen senior is named on the marriage certificate of John Mullen junior with Emily Clements, but was stated to be deceased in 1939. 

I have traced various John Mullens in the Lanarkshire area which might well fit the details of JM senior but as we have no information about his parents or his place of birth it is difficult to decide which of these to pursue - there are quite a few of them.

Would anyone happen to know a Mullen family where the father John was a coal miner, who had died before 1939 and who had a son John who was a rifleman in the Cameronians in 1939? His army number is given as 3244083.
I have tried searching census records in Scotland but they only give bare details and you cannot view the actual images.

We would be so grateful if anyone has any information that might help us in our search as we have now hit the proverbial brick wall.

Linda.

[sancti]

Try posting on the Military Board to see if they can find info from his enlistment records

[ev]

hi all 

would ww2 records not have to be ordered from the MOD office in glasgow ?
i have just filled in forms for the next of kin for someone who served 1946 to
1956
it was free as the next of kin is still alive
otherwise it is £30. proof of death is required
as Sancti notes a post on the armed forces board ww2 will help with further
advice

ev

[MonicaL]

Just adding a link to Linda's previous post on John Mullen which has a few more details www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,520481.0.html

I think one of the problems in following through on military papers may well be being able to confirm a death for John Mullen. He was born 1916, so a possibility that he may still be alive and without a death cert, hard to say/prove otherwise 

Monica

[Lodger]

Try the Cameronian museum at the Low Parks museum in Hamilton, they have the WWI war diaries for many of the battalions.  It used to be a chap by the name of Terry McKenzie who was in charge, not sure if he is still there.
Don't know the address but google will bring it up.

Lodger

[CabSauv]

Thanks to Monica and all others who have taken the time and effort to reply.  What a nice friendly forum this is!

The main problem with tracing either John Mullen senior or junior is that the only info we have is that on his son`s (also called John) birth certificate, and the marriage certificate of John junior with his mother which was in London at the beginning of WW2.  Apart from that, we have no other facts. 
I believe that the Cameronian Regiment was sourced from the Lanarkshire area before it disbanded and the son John assures me that his father was born in Scotland. I have left a posting on the Cameronian`s own Forum,  which last time I looked had been read 100`s of times but no replies at all.

I have traced a John Mullen in the Cambuslang area (Google is a wonderful tool sometimes) and this chap was born c. 1890 and stated to be a miner.  I have also found details of a John Mullen`s WW1 records which would tie in with the latter as well, but as I can`t access the Scottish census records in detail (they are not available to Ancestry - just the basic information) I am not sure if this is our JM or not.

Interestingly I have discovered another John Mullen on the Commonwealth War Graves site. This would fit our JM junior perfectly if it were not for the fact that the last 3 digits of his Service number in the Cameronians in WW2 differ from the details I have for ours.  This JM died in Germany on 26th March 1945 and is buried in the Reichswald Forest War Cemetery.  It is such a co-incidence that I wonder if the service number on his marriage certificate could possibly be incorrect. 

This is not an easy one to search, and the friend who I am trying to help is a bit disillusioned and has almost resigned himself to never knowing his family roots, which is a bit sad as he is getting on a bit himself now.

Thanks again to everyone,

Linda.

[MonicaL]

Hi Linda

It is a really hard search given the period that you are in and records not being available on line. Given the on line restrictions on Scotlands People, it is the kind of search that would normally be done at one of the genealogy centres in Scotland (such as in Edinburgh or Glasgow) where you can view more recent certificates on line from the GROS. Trying to do it just from the SP indexes and then ordering certs would be an expensive mad exercise to be honest  I get the feeling though that visiting one of these centres is likely not to be feasible.

The Ancestry scottish censuses index do the job well even without the original images. The main bit of info that is not included on the Scottish transcripts is simply maritial status (single, widowed etc), which is unlikely to be relevant up to 1901 for John Snr (even if he was married by 1901, you are likely to be able to see this from the household entries).

One other thing which I am not sure whether you have considered so far in your searches is the joy (pain!) of spellling variants. There will be a few; Mullen/Mullan/Mullin and also you need to consider possibly a Mac/Mc before the name...

Regarding the possible death on the CWGC site. I thought from what you said on the other post as background info that John Jnr and his wife divorced? If you know the year of birth of the last possible child born to John Jnr. this would help you with dates. Also the year of a remarriage for his wife (did she show as divorced on her remarriage or widowed?).

No anwers at at all for you, just some thoughts unfortunately.

Monica

[MonicaL]

I think we can discount the WW2 death of a John Mullen with the Cameronians. This looks to be his details which include parents' names, see here www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2040597

Monica

[CabSauv]

Hi Monica,

I see what you mean about the war graves site - looks as if the father was Stephan and not John. Quite a coincidence though.  I believe that sometimes when Mullen families emigrated to Scotland from Ireland they often added a Mc to their names, but I don`t really want to go there just yet as I suspect even more headaches.
I did actually search for a divorce for JM junior and Emily Clements, then another search for her marriage to a Mr Confrey but could not find anything. But I had not thought of checking for other children of the marriage - I believe my friend had a younger brother and 2 sisters, but they may be half siblings as I believe JM junior left Emily Mullen (Clements) in 1945.  She then (or had already) met Mr. Confrey - it was wartime and lots of things probably happened like that.   Anyway it is worth trying - thanks for your advice. 

Best wishes
Linda.