Eliza Jenkins(born 1865) son John McNeill Jenkins (born 1903)

[mojo1970]

Hi All,

I am still trying to check out the theory that my great-grandmother Elizabeth Jenkins/Junkin was married around the late 19th century. I can't find an Elizabeth Jenkins/Junkin that matches in the 1901 census. Maybe she just wasn't on it!

Although I did find two marriages. Elizabeth Junkin (gault) 1872 to a Thomas Smyth  which really can't be her. Or, an Elizabeth Jenkins to a Matthew Patterson in 1885, both in Larne. The strange thing is I can't find any combination of the Jenkins/Patterson names on the 1901 census. Anyone with any ideas of where to get info on the 1885 marriage, and out of interest who the Elizabeth is in the earlier 1872 marriage?

Kind regards

Terry Morrow

[mojo1970]

Hi All, This is just an update on the search for my Great Grandfather. Thanks to DNA, the McNeill aspect of his name is correct. There was a match to a McNeill family from Larne which has narrowed the search down to I believe two possibilities. The DNA match came from a relative in New Zealand, an Andrew McNeill, brother of John McNeill living at 4 Roddens Road, Larne (1911 census). Andrew emigrated to NZ, another brother William James emigrated to Australia with John and another brother Allan living in Larne. I believe that either John or Allan to be my Great-Grandfather. John is married with several children so would he have had an affair with my Great-Grandmother, then sent her away when she fell pregnant, not so sure!! Allan, now this is interesting. From what I understand Allan was sent to a mental institution I presume sometime after 1911. Could this be the reason why my G-Grandmother left Larne for Belfast??

By the way, Andrew McNeill's son Tom is a 1st cousin match to my Grandfather. I just want to say thank you for your help on all of my research. Kind Regards

[softly softly]

I notice on the birth record of John in 1903 the mothers maiden name was Gingles, then crossed out and Jenkins substituted. There are Elizabeth Gingles born in Larne.

SS

[mojo1970]

I notice on the birth record of John in 1903 the mothers maiden name was Gingles, then crossed out and Jenkins substituted. There are Elizabeth Gingles born in Larne.

SS

Hi, Not sure why the Gingles was written but I presume just a mistake at the time. I have no family connection to the Gingles family. Regards.

[aghadowey]

I think that there are some things you might have missed and mis-interpreted.

Staring with the 1911 census here's Eliza Jenkins (age 45) and son John (age 7)-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Napier_Street/156071
Here's John's birth (mother Lizzie)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01883/1732437.pdf

Now, back ten years to 1901 census- Lizzie Jenkins is 27 and it looks as though David Jenkins (26) and Lily Smyth (7) are siblings/half siblings.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Larne/Hope_Street/995970/

Now, Lily is sometimes a nickname for Elizabeth but I couldn't find an Elizabeth or Lily Smyth born in Larne district in the 1890s. However, searching for the surname as Jenkins brings up this birth-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02329/1871958.pdf Lizzie Gault- mother Lizzie Jenkins, name of father Samuel Richmond crossed out (father of illegitimate children had to attend registration in order to be listed on birth certificate).
So, looks like Elizabeth/Eliza/Lizzie Jenkins had more than one illegitimate child. This also makes it unlikely that she was married in late 1800s.

There's more in next post ...

[mojo1970]

I think that there are some things you might have missed and mis-interpreted.

Staring with the 1911 census here's Eliza Jenkins (age 45) and son John (age 7)-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/St__George_s/Napier_Street/156071
Here's John's birth (mother Lizzie)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1903/01883/1732437.pdf

Now, back ten years to 1901 census- Lizzie Jenkins is 27 and it looks as though David Jenkins (26) and Lily Smyth (7) are siblings/half siblings.
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Larne/Hope_Street/995970/

Now, Lily is sometimes a nickname for Elizabeth but I couldn't find an Elizabeth or Lily Smyth born in Larne district in the 1890s. However, searching for the surname as Jenkins brings up this birth-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02329/1871958.pdf Lizzie Gault- mother Lizzie Jenkins, name of father Samuel Richmond crossed out (father of illegitimate children had to attend registration in order to be listed on birth certificate).
So, looks like Elizabeth/Eliza/Lizzie Jenkins had more than one illegitimate child. This also makes it unlikely that she was married in late 1800s.

There's more in next post ...

Hi, I believed that Lily Smyth's father was a Thomas Smyth who married my GG-Grandmother Elizabeth Gault in 1872. I now have all the information in regard to the Smyth family. The Redmond connection is new to me but I can confirm that Agnes Moore is Elizabeth Jenkins/Junkin's sister. Why would Lizzie Jenkins' daughter be given the surname Gault? Very confusing!!

Can you make out the name under Lizzie Jenkins on Lizzie Gault's birth cert? Kind Regards

[Kiltaglassan]

Looks like her occupation of dressmaker ( see #351 two above).

 

[aghadowey]

Why would Lizzie Jenkins' daughter be given the surname Gault? Very confusing!!
Can you make out the name under Lizzie Jenkins on Lizzie Gault's birth cert?

You still are getting muddled so let’s go back to Lily before I start posting more details-

Lizzie Gault- mother Lizzie Jenkins, name of father Samuel Richmond crossed out (father of illegitimate children had to attend registration in order to be listed on birth certificate).
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1892/02329/1871958.pdf (Gault is Lizzie middle name) – surnames are not listed on birth registrations. At the time of her marriage in 1917 she is Elizabeth Gault Jenkins- presumably named after her grandmother.. Her father seems to have been a Samuel RICHMOND (not Redmond)- more on him later. Her mother Lizzie Jenkins’ occupation was Dressmaker (the word you had trouble reading).
Lily Smyth (age 7)- possibly raised by grandmother Elizabeth (Gault) Smyth-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1901/Antrim/Larne/Hope_Street/995970/
Lilly Jenkins, age 18, in household of Sarah (Smyth) Blair- more on Sarah later-
https://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/pages/1911/Antrim/Larne/Shore_Road/196143/

Elizabth Gault Jenkins m.(1917) James Fleck McKinstry. There is no father listed for the bride which is not surprising since she was illegitimate.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1917/09735/5532174.pdf
A bit about James Fleck McKinstry here- although wife not listed-
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/McKinstry-877

Sadly, I did find this WWII death for John in 1942, son of John Flack and Elizabeth Gault McKinstry (note: Flack and Gault are their middle names)
https://losses.internationalbcc.co.uk/loss/218878/
https://www.cwgc.org/find-records/find-war-dead/casualty-details/2777723/john-mckinstry/
McKinstry John of 34 Fleet Street Larne Harbour county Antrim sergeant Royal air force died 8 June 1942 at Essen Ruhr Germany Administration (with Will) Belfast 20 January to Elizabeth Gault McKinstry widow. Effects £463 9s.

Here’s John’s birth in 1918-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1918/01283/1531883.pdf
Sister Sarah Blair McKInstry born 1920- Lizzie was living with Sarah Blair in 1911 and when she married in 1917 (she may have lived with the Blairs for many years)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1920/01211/1503655.pdf
Sister Maureen born 4 Mar.1922. Sister Jamesina born 4 June 1924. There could be others younger.
McKinstry James Flack of Fleet Street Larne Harbour Larne county Antrim labourer died 16 November 1931 Probate Belfast 20 January [1932] to Elizabeth Cecil McKinstry the widow. Effects £1266 4s. 4d. [Likely Gault has been misread as Cecil]

[aghadowey]

This witness may or may not be the Samuel Richmond father of Elizabeth Gault Jenkins/Smyth later McKinstry but it is interesting that the groom is a John McNeill (John Hunter McNeill married Sarah Smyth)-
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/marriage_returns/marriages_1892/10649/5879931.pdf