Author Topic: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897  (Read 16283 times)

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #9 on: Tuesday 08 March 11 16:21 GMT (UK) »

Arthur George Skelton

Sep 1896 Caistor 7a 626

(Caistor district covered Great Grimsby until 1897)


Probably the only way to are going to possible find who the father is of Arthur is to obtain his birth or marriage certificate - hopefully mother Lucy has named the father.

Difficult to say whether the birth entry above is your Arthur it does look promising.  As Arthur's middle name is George that might indicate that George Skelton is his father.

On your Lancashire post   'Help on tracing Peter Sanderson b 1832 Carleton'  you mention that Gertrude (father James Penswick mother Margaret Sanderson) marries Arthur George Wilkins

Do you have access to this marriage certificate?
If not an option would be to order this and see who Arthur has named as his father.
   
Unfortunately, as far as I can see Lancashire OPC do not have the entry - St. Chad's Poulton Le Flyde marriages only go up to 1900 - you would need to purchase the certificate unless someone can help with a look up at the record office in Preston, Lancashire

Here are the details from Lancashire BMD
PENSWICK Gertrude/WILKINS  Arthur George   St. Chad Poulton-le-Fylde, Registers at Preston reference number   FJ/3/203

Here are the details from FreeBMD
Dec qtr. 1919 Flyde Vol 8e page 1777
Arthur George Wilkins
Gertrude Penswick

Here's a picture of the church from Lancashire OPC

http://www.lan-opc.org.uk/Poulton-le-Fylde/index.html


This is where it gets most interesting.  For whatever reason, Lucy leaves James Wilkins and moves to Grimsby.

The notes from Amy says she was a housekeeper with a man named "Barker"

This is the first listing in the census of my grandfather w/ Lucy, but with a man named "Skelton".

1901 RG13 Piece:3091 Folio:186 Page:36    
SKELTON, Geo Head Married M 38 1863 Fisherman Aldford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Lucy Wife Married F 38 1863 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Step Daughter Single F 16 1885 Waitress Aldershot  SKELTON, Sarah A Daughter F 15 1886 Grimsby Lincolnshire
WILKINS, David J Step Son M 14 1887 Nipper Lad Railway Westminster
WILKINS, Amy E S Step Daughter F 12 1889 Westminster London
SKELTON, Arthur G Son M 4 1897 Grimsby Lincolnshire


As Arthur was born after 1891 census and before 1901 census difficult to say whether Lucy was expecting before she's on the next census (1901) with George Skelton.

As no marriage found Skelton/Wilkins perhaps she meet George while expecting (maybe by father named Barker ) and he took her and the Wilkins children in and when Arthur was born she gave him his name. ::)

When she left George Skelton for what ever reason after 1901 and meets Stephen Hazelgrove then marries him 1912. She gave daughter Phyllis Elizabeth Hazelgrove surname of Wilkins (1906) which would seem to indicate Stephen Hazelgrove to be her father. Lucy's maiden name was RILEY - Lucy Ellen Riley married James Wilkins in 1883.

Before 1911 census perhaps after birth of Phyllis 1906 Lucy then changed her and  Arthur's surname from Skelton back to Wilkins because she was not married to George Skelton only living with him sometime after 1891 census.

The only way I can see to unravel your mystery is with Arthur's birth record and hope that Lucy has named the father.

I would assume on his marriage certificate he is likely to name the person known to him  :-\
Census information Crown Copyright, from www.nationalarchives.gov.uk

Offline rwenman

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #10 on: Wednesday 09 March 11 05:10 GMT (UK) »
My Aunt Joan has Phyllis's birth certificate in her records, and will take a look again to see if Lucy is shown as a Hazelgrove, Skelton, or Wilkins.

From the letter from Amy Wilkins, seems as if she remembered Barker, so it sounds as if Barker was around for awhile. 

I think you may be right on Lucy and her moving in with skelton, but as you said we still need Arthur's birth certificate.

I wonder if I can order it from the Grimsby Registars office?

thanks again, more to ponder tonight.

Rob

Offline rwenman

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #11 on: Wednesday 09 March 11 05:14 GMT (UK) »
Oh, thanks for the photo..I did find it online.  This is where my Aunt Joan brought my mother's ashes to be spread amongst the roses.  She and her husband were just on a big trip across the US when my mom died, so they came and I asked them to bring them back to the church where she was baptized. I hope to go there in the next year. :)

Offline rwenman

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #12 on: Wednesday 09 March 11 14:54 GMT (UK) »
I just spoke with my mom's cousin who confirmed that the birth certificate she has for Phyllis Hazelgrove, shows that Lucy put James Wilkins down as the father.  Seems less likely since they were did not show to be together at least during the 1901 census:

1901 RG13 Piece:3091 Folio:186 Page:36   
SKELTON, Geo Head Married M 38 1863 Fisherman Aldford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Lucy Wife Married F 38 1863 Rochford Essex
WILKINS, Ethel M Step Daughter Single F 16 1885 Waitress Aldershot Hampshire SKELTON,
Sarah A Daughter F 15 1886 or 1885 (mother: Sarah Ann Todd?) Grimsby Lincolnshire
WILKINS, David J Step Son M 14 1887 Nipper Lad Railway Westminster
WILKINS, Amy E S Step Daughter F 12 1889 Westminster London
SKELTON, Arthur G Son M 4 1897 Grimsby Lincolnshire

Still, the letter from Lucy's daughter explains that Phyllis is the daughter of Lucy and Hazelgrove. 

Still working on getting copy of Arthur's birth certificate to see what it has on there.

Also, I haven't found a death certificate for Lucy's first husband, which might shed some light on this, along with more information on the two children Lucy left behind with James when she came to Grimsby:

Walter Frederick Wilkins
17/11/1887 Surrey
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen

Winifred Daisy Wilkins
18/09/1891 All Saints Lambeth
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen


Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #13 on: Wednesday 09 March 11 17:19 GMT (UK) »
Looks as if James & Lucy had two other children from IGI familysearch beta

Walter Frederick Wilkins

17/11/1887 Surrey
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen

Winifred Daisy Wilkins
18/09/1891 All Saints Lambeth
father James David Wilkins
mother Lucy Ellen

FreeBMD
Death Dec. qtr. 1891 Lambeth
Winifred Daisy Wilkins age 0


daughter Winifred won't be on any census with James & Lucy as she had died during or shortly after birth

I would have thought that son Walter would have been with them on 1891c  there are these entries on FreeBMD can't say if the death entry is the same Walter Frederick

birth
Walter Frederick Wilkins
Dec 1887 St. Geo H Sq

death age 0
Walter Frederick Wilkins
Dec 1887 Strand

Difficult to say if any of these death entries are for James David Wilkins between 1891 & 1901 daughter Winifred was born 1891 Lambeth perhaps he died in the London area

death possibilities for
James Wilkins

1896 Lambeth age 51      (1845)
1896 Pancras age 46       (1850)
1897 Marylebone age 47 (1850)
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Offline Barleymow

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #14 on: Wednesday 09 March 11 21:03 GMT (UK) »
George Skeltons marriage




St. John's Cleethorpes Road   28/02/1886
   SKELTON   George  age 21  a    fisherman  of  Victor St Grimsby
Father...   Peter  a   labourer   
                TODD   Sarah Ann  age  19   of  Victor St  Grimsby
Father...   Richard  a   labourer   

  Wits;  Frederick Mingay CHAPMAN  and    May FELSTEAD               
Weatherhead..Coldstream Scotland
McClelland..Portglenone Ireland.... Woolwich,Kent
Whitehead..  Falkirk Scotland...Woolwich Kent
Norman..Germany...London
Barley ..   Grimsby...Lincolnshire
Ackley ..Loughborough..Leicestershire
Plant...Cape of Good Hope..India, Staffordshire...Woolwich.
Head...Woolwich Kent.

Offline rwenman

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #15 on: Thursday 10 March 11 02:44 GMT (UK) »
How odd that both children Walter Wilkins and Winnifred Wilkins died within a few months of age, but I guess that was not all that unusual?  Then Lucy seems to have left after Winnifred died.

Not sure what happened to Sara Skelton (Todd) or did I miss that somewhere?  Also interesting that they lived off Cleethorpes Rd. which Lucy's daughter Amy said in her letter is where they lived.  Still, that is the main road in town near the waterfront.

Offline Ladyhawk

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #16 on: Thursday 10 March 11 07:34 GMT (UK) »
I had found the following census with a Sarah Ann SKELTON but hadn't posted

We know that George's fathers name is Peter from the marriage entry from Barleymow, so this must be her with her grandparets

1891 RG12 Piece:2626 Folio:54 Page:10     
The Grange, Broughton
SKELTON, Peter Head Mar 1837 Ag. Laborer Fordington Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Naomi Wife 1832 Alford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Ruth Dau 15 1876 Hagworthingham Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Peter Son 1881 Scholar Harborough Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Sarah A Granddaughter 1887 Grimsby Lincolnshire George’s daughter

Can’t locate George SKELTON on 1891 census
As he’s a noted as a Fisherman on marriage & later censuses perhaps he was away at sea on night of 1891 census   :-\

1881 Head John LOCKING
SKELTON George 16 Alford Lincolnshire Farm Servant (indoor)

1871
The Rectory, Brigsley
SKELTON, Peter Head 1836 Fordington Lincolnshire Ag. Labourer
SKELTON, Naomi Wife 1840 Alford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Mary A Dau 10 1861 Lincolnshire
SKELTON, George Son 1865 Alford Lincolnshire
SKELTON, Thomas Son 1867 Lincolnshire
SKELTON, William Son 1871 Lincolnshire
More children by 1881c Jane, Ruth, Sarah E & Peter Skelton

1861c Rookery, alford
SKELTON, Peter Head 1835 Ag. Labourer Lincoln Fordington
SKELTON, Naomi Wife 1840  Lincoln Alford
SKELTON, William Son 1859 Lincoln Alford

Peter SKELTON (parents Peter & Rebecca from 1841c)
Naomi VICKERS (parents John & Jane from 1851c )
Marriage entry FreeBMD - Sep qtr. 1858 Spilsby Lincoln

Not sure what happened to Sarah Skelton (Todd) or did I miss that somewhere? 

This looks to be the death entry for Sarah Ann Skelton nee Todd
Tati posted details too reply 5

Jun qtr. 1889 Caistor
Sarah Ann SKELTON age 21 (1868)

 :)



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Offline Barleymow

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Re: Arthur George Wilkins or Skelton b 1897
« Reply #17 on: Thursday 10 March 11 10:02 GMT (UK) »
Sarah's burial




12  Apr   1889   Sarah Ann   SKELTON   21   Lincs   Cleethorpes, Cemetery
Weatherhead..Coldstream Scotland
McClelland..Portglenone Ireland.... Woolwich,Kent
Whitehead..  Falkirk Scotland...Woolwich Kent
Norman..Germany...London
Barley ..   Grimsby...Lincolnshire
Ackley ..Loughborough..Leicestershire
Plant...Cape of Good Hope..India, Staffordshire...Woolwich.
Head...Woolwich Kent.