George E. Simmons & Dora Turner/Charity Waller of Essex

[crisane]

Hi
Formerly Webster means that was her maiden name.
This says Dorothy, something? Webster. Can you tell what the word is after Dorothy and before Webster?
I still can't find a marriage for George Simmons and a Webster. Do you have access to birth and marriage records in US specifically Pensylvania as this is where they had their first and second children Charles and Annie K?

I am going to keep searching in the censuses for Dora/Dorothy prior to her marriage but she makes difficult by changing her mind about where she was born.

[092086]

Hi
Formerly Webster means that was her maiden name.
This says Dorothy, something? Webster. Can you tell what the word is after Dorothy and before Webster?
I still can't find a marriage for George Simmons and a Webster. Do you have access to birth and marriage records in US specifically Pensylvania as this is where they had their first and second children Charles and Annie K?

I am going to keep searching in the censuses for Dora/Dorothy prior to her marriage but she makes difficult by changing her mind about where she was born.

Looks like "Savory" to me

Feels really good to be able to distance myself from the mess that is Dora Turner/George Simmons with the whole 22 children business.

I have ancestry world deluxe so I'm going to try and seek out the Penn. records, but they look scarce at first glance.

Furthermore, I did some more digging and found a potential death record for George:

Deaths Mar 1907
Simmons    George    77    Epping    4a   284
Death @ 77 makes him born ~1830 which is right on par, so I might have to go ahead and order this as well

[crisane]

Hi
yes I also think it is savory and there are a few people with the name savory on FreeBMD and ancestry but not Dorothy/Dora Webster!
That death record is the same as I posted i think and it would give you information as to informant and his wife etc but not his parents. I also posted a possible death record for Dora earlier.
Yes I also have a full sub to ancestry but haven't been able to find any voyage record to or from USA for George and Dora/Dorothy either, together or Dora as Webster.
Still no sign of a marriage for George and Dora/Dorothy in England so we need to see if they married in US and if there are Pennsylvania birth records for Charles and Annie K.
The marriage would be good as it would give George and Dora/Dorothy's father's names.
Try www.cyndislist.com and click on U to take you to sites available for research in USA. There is a site vitalrec.com for BMD's at which I took a quick look and seems to have a free 7 day trial but then is $40 US dollars for a years sub.
There is also the Pennsylvania historical society (google it) which may be able to help with advice.
That marriage record is needed to get further back:)

[092086]

Hi
yes I also think it is savory and there are a few people with the name savory on FreeBMD and ancestry but not Dorothy/Dora Webster!
That death record is the same as I posted i think and it would give you information as to informant and his wife etc but not his parents. I also posted a possible death record for Dora earlier.
Yes I also have a full sub to ancestry but haven't been able to find any voyage record to or from USA for George and Dora/Dorothy either, together or Dora as Webster.
Still no sign of a marriage for George and Dora/Dorothy in England so we need to see if they married in US and if there are Pennsylvania birth records for Charles and Annie K.
The marriage would be good as it would give George and Dora/Dorothy's father's names.
Try www.cyndislist.com and click on U to take you to sites available for research in USA. There is a site vitalrec.com for BMD's at which I took a quick look and seems to have a free 7 day trial but then is $40 US dollars for a years sub.
There is also the Pennsylvania historical society (google it) which may be able to help with advice.
That marriage record is needed to get further back:)

As usual, thanks

Is there a reason you think his death certificate wouldn't list his parents? Thats unfortunate. Makes finding the marriage certificate all the more important.

Im probably going to end up having to order a batch of records from the freebmd to ensure I have all my bases covered.

Ill also see what I can do with the Pennsylvania link and try to make connections with George's other children and see if they have any family trees.

[crisane]

Hi
The English death certs I have only give the informant and the wife or husband of the deceased.
it is different for different countries eg Australian ones I have give the husband/wife, the parents and all the children born to the marriage. Of course all the info given is only as good as the knowledge the informant has. One of my husband's great aunts got the maiden name of her mother completely wrong!
As you say the more certicates you have  the more you cover all bases, and although expensive may be necessary.
I can't see any other family trees on ancestry or GenesReunited for your George or Dora/Dorothy Webster.
Looking for a birth of a Dorothy Webster on FreeBMD 1838-1845 only one turns up and that is in Bakewell Derbyshire in 1839 which is not one of the counties Dora gave in the census records as her place of birth!
I'll follow her through the censuses just to eliminate her.

[crisane]

I think this could be your George Simmons with his parents in 1851. This George does not appear on the
1861 census which would fit with him being in US.
HO107/1756/481/16
Northall, Edlesborough Buckinghamshire
William Simmons 63 agricultural labourer born Cublington Buckinghamshire
Ann 56 straw palaiter Stoke hammond Bucks
George 20 straw plaiter Edlesborough Bucks
Hannah 17 straw plaiter Edlesborough
Charles 16  straw plaiter Edlesborough

Now Edlesborough is where Dora says she was born in the 1871, '81, '91 censuses. Edlesborough and Northall are only 1 mile apart.

[crisane]

Same family as last post but without Ann, William's wife. it could be that she was a second wife that William married between the 1841 and '51 census.
1841 HO107/49/7/10 Book 14
Northall, Reg dist. Edlesborough Buckinghamshire
William Simmons 52 ag lab born in county YES
Maria 24 yes
William 18 yes
George 12 yes
Hannah 12 yes
Charles 6 yes.

There is a Phebe Simmons 21 in the previous household who could be related.

[crisane]

yep here's the second marriage for William. Unfortunately no name of first wife but now know William's father's name.  Got this from familysearch.org (beta search)
Groom's name William Simmons
Bride's name Ann Gadsden
Marriage date 18 Nov 1847
Marriage place, Edlesborough, Buckingham, England
Groom's father's name - William Simmons
Bride's father's name - Jeffry Gadsden 
Indexing Project (Batch) Number: M13003-3
System Origin - England-VR
Source Film Number - 1042381

[092086]

Hi
The English death certs I have only give the informant and the wife or husband of the deceased.
it is different for different countries eg Australian ones I have give the husband/wife, the parents and all the children born to the marriage. Of course all the info given is only as good as the knowledge the informant has. One of my husband's great aunts got the maiden name of her mother completely wrong!
As you say the more certicates you have  the more you cover all bases, and although expensive may be necessary.
I can't see any other family trees on ancestry or GenesReunited for your George or Dora/Dorothy Webster.
Looking for a birth of a Dorothy Webster on FreeBMD 1838-1845 only one turns up and that is in Bakewell Derbyshire in 1839 which is not one of the counties Dora gave in the census records as her place of birth!
I'll follow her through the censuses just to eliminate her.

Can we be sure the maiden name is "Webster" despite it saying 'formerly'? Because the Birth Certificate has: Name, surname and maiden name as Dorothy Savory Simmons which led me to believe Simmons was her maiden name