Merchant Navy records WW2 - CLARK

[BUDERIM ROSS]

I've been tracing my father's history for about five years. I was adopted in WW2 after my mother died and my father (in the MN) was unable to care for me. His name was Duncan Clark (R178567) and he was a Marine Engineer with the Clan Line and associated fleets. I have traced him to October 1940 in Liverpool where he left one vessel (SS Berwickshire) and, we assume, boarded another. Not certain, as his discharge certificate ends there and no further trace is available in the Fourth or Fifth Registers of Seamen. He survived the war, having been torpedoed (we believe) and invalided out. It would appear that he may have left Liverpool on either the Clan Ogilvy or the Harmodius, both torpedoed on return voyage in 1941.
My question is (after all that) does the NA hold crew lists for vessels sunk or did the list go down with the ship ? I live in Australia and have had several crew list searches done by NA which has proved expensive so I'm reluctant to commission another which may have no possible result.
Or does anybody know of a source for lists of survivors.

Regards

Ross in a very hot Australia
 

[HMac]

Hello Ross,

Who did you get to check the records in the Fifth Register of Seamen? Did they check BT 382/326 - that is where his records should be if they have survived. Not all have so you may just be unlucky? You say he was invalided out of the MN, do you know when this was? If he continued to serve after the war his records may be lurking in the second series held in BT 382/2193 - although I suspect he was invalided out before the end of the war - am I correct?

With regard to your other question re crew lists, when a vessel was lost at sea, its official logbook, which includes the crew agreement, would have been lost with the vessel. In these circumstances the owners would submit the copy of the crew list that had been retained on shore to the RGSS. These lists were then used for registration of the deaths of the crew. So to answer your question, yes, there should be an official logbook held at Kew in BT 381. You can check if there is an official logbook by searching online using the ship's official number. Need the name of the ship to start with?

Regards
Hugh 

[BUDERIM ROSS]

Good Morning Hugh

Many thanks for your quick response and information.

I had Kew search 382/326 with no result. I know that Duncan was invalided out in 1941-1943. The last trace I have is on "Berwickshire" in Birkenhead for a week in October 1940 where he was signed on as "Ex 2nd/3rd Engineer" (depending on where you look). He left that ship with several others also signed on as extras including two masters (presumably being transported elsewhere).

 I surmised that he may have then transferred to another Clan Line or associated company vessel. By using movement cards from Kew, I  found out that "Harmodius" and "Clan Ogilvy" both sailed from Liverpool around the same time as "Berwickshire" and both were torpedoed on their return voyage to UK. My next step will be to ask Kew to look at those crew lists.

I have a copy of Duncan's Continuous Certificate of Discharge, given to me by Duncan's daughter (my half sister - recently discovered). The last entry is for "Berwickshire" with the description "intended foreign" against the voyage description.

Once again, my thanks

Ross

[HMac]

Hello Ross,
One of the reasons why there may be no records in BT 382 is if his service didn't continue after Jan 1941. Have you thought about that?
Taking pot luck with crew agreements may get expensive.
Regards
Hugh

[ScouseBoy]

If  he was some sort of Marine Engineer, he may have been transferred to a shore job.   In the ports, such as Liverpool, Glasgow, Portsmouth  etc etc.  there would be loads of maintenance and repair  jobs available for skilled marine engineers.  also in the shipyards.  So, while he may have been considerd unfit for service on a seagoing ship, I am sure that the Ministry of Labour   would have tried their  best to put him into an essential repairs job.   Try looking up Harland and Wolf  or Cammell Lairds in  Liverpool and Birkenhead during WW2.

[ScouseBoy]

On the question of "survivors"  there was a Royal Navy hospital in Liverpool.   I suggest that you could start a new thread on the WW2  section,  with a title something like   "Military and Naval hospitals of WW2"         If men were rescued from lifeboats or from the sea, on getting back to dry land they may have needed to be sent to a survivors hospital.             Also google search   for  "royal navy hospital, Liverpool  WW2"

[BUDERIM ROSS]

Thanks for that.


You are correct.

He was placed, presumably by the Ministry of Labour (as far as I know) as a Engineer/Surveyor with a large insurance company , inspecting boilers and other equipment, a job he stuck at until retirement.

 Regards

Ross