Author Topic: Latin translation help please (probate documents)  (Read 8095 times)

Offline HannahJ

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Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« on: Sunday 27 February 11 13:08 GMT (UK) »
Hello all,

I've been transcribing and trying to translate two probate documents written in Latin from the early 1700s.  The transcription part has been reasonably ok, but having struggled with a copy of Denis Stuart's Latin for Local & Family Historians, I'm finally having to admit defeat with the translation!  I've managed to get the gist of the documents, but a 'proper' translation eludes me.

Could any of you kind souls help me, either with a translation of the documents, or by suggesting further resources I could look at?

Thanks!  :)

Document 1:

In Dei No{m}i{n}e Amen Admissis p{ro}baconibus Etimis de et super fac{t}ione Testam{en}ti hu{is}mo{d}j p{re}sentibus annex coram discreto viro Joanne Briggs Cl{er}ico substituto sive surrogato ven{}lis viri Thomae Waite arnngeri in Legibus Baccalaurei in et per tot{a}m Archi{diaco}nat{um} Richmond Cestr Diec{e}s Com{m}issarij

Etime constitut ipsum Testam{en}tum hu{is}mo{d}j rite factm~ et annep{ro}batin~ nos Com{m}issarius antedictus p{ro}nunciamus app{ro}bamus et insinuamus ac p{ro} viribus et valore ejusdem decernimus et declaramus Adm{inist}rat{i}onemq{ue} omnia et singulor~ bonor~ jur{u}m~ Creditor~ Cattallor~ et Chattallor~ quae fuerunt Christopher Waller nuper de Moorgarth paroc{h}ae de Bentham defunct tempore vitae et mortis suae infra archi{diaco}natum praed{ict} ubi{li}bet existent~ Aliciae Waller viduae relictae dicit defuncti et uni coexec{uto}rium in d{i}cto Testam{en}to nominat in forma Juris primiclus coram dicto Surrogato virtute Specialis Comiconis~ a Nobis Sibi in hac parte direct ad Scta Dei Evanglia Jurat per p{re}sentes p{re}ficimus ac in D{omi}no com{m}ittimus (Salve Jure cujusc{un}q{ue}) Refervata temen potestate consilem Administraconem~ comittendi Jacobo Waller filio dicti def{unc}ti alteri Coexec{uto}rid{u}m d{i}cto Testam{en}to nominat cum venerit eandem in forma Juris petitur et in Se Insceptur Dat Sub Sigillo officij nri (q{}o in hac parte Utiminr) Sixto die Mensis Aprilis Anno D{omi}nj Millesimio Septingentesimo Quarto



Second half of document 2 (I've managed the first half):

cum prefata Rebecca Butterfield defunct ab hac luce migravit nullo per eam condito Testamento Saltem coram Nobis adhuc exhibito, ad adnnamis? igitur colligend~, levand~, recuperand~ & recipiend omnia & singula Bona Jura, Credita, Cattalla, & Chattala que fuerunt ipsuis defunct Tempore Vite & Mortis sue infra archi{diaco}nat~ predict~ ubi{li}bet existent~, ac aes alienum in quo dict defunct Tempore Mortia sue cinq extiterat obligat vel obnoxia Creditoribus p{er} solvenis quatenus Bona, Jura, Credita & Chattalla lumnoi~ ad hoc exlendunt & Jura volunt arbis prefatis Thomae Waller Johni Waller & Josephe Waller de quorum Fidelitate hu{is}mo{d}j Edonorum, Jurinum, Creditorum & Chattallorum Admiatores Prefirminus Constituimus & ordinamus p{er} Presentes (salvo jure cujusc{um}q{ue}) Alicia Waller vidua mater dictae defunctae prius in Scriptis sub manu & sigillo suis in Scriptis renunsciante dato sub sigillo officijuri~ tricesimo die Januarij anno d{omi}ni  mill{es}imo septingentesimo vicesimo octavo

Jos{ep}h Lambert
Regrij aep{}tus

Looking for:
Baines - Lancaster; Bainbridge - Westmorland & Lancaster; Bodiam - Hollingbourne, Kent; Edmondson - West Riding / Lancashire border; Faraday - all West Riding; Pankhurst - East & West Farleigh, Kent; Parker - Giggleswick, West Riding; Waller & Redmayne - Ingleton, West Riding
and others...

Offline bluechrome

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Re: Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« Reply #1 on: Monday 28 February 11 08:18 GMT (UK) »
Hello Hannah I just used the google translation tool on this text and some of it makes sense but Peru ? Anyway it maybe of some help.  Nigel

Rebekah Butterfield with the aforesaid deceased departed from this life by it, shall in no way at least before the creation of Testament for us to still has been exhibited, to the adnnamis? ~, therefore, to gather them, levied ~, ~ and of recovering the recovery of all and each of the goods of the rights, believed to be a chattels, and he himself Chattala which belonged to the deceased of life, of the season and of his death within the Chest diaco {nat} ~ ~ where the said the word '{} ~ bet exist, and 's debts in which the said deceased cinq time of his death or been subject to creditors obliges {p} hrough the solvent for the goods in so far as, the rights, and was entrusted to the Chattalla lumnoi ~ exlendunt this left to the decision and they will swear to the aforesaid John of Thomas Waller & Waller Joseph Waller: of which the Fidelity of the human { MO it} {d} one Edonis, Jurinum, a creditor and Chattallorum Admiatores Prefirminus We arranged a p and ordain these presents} {hrough the (saving the right of cujusc um {q} {n}) Alice Waller widows, mother of the deceased 'the first time in the Writings of the under the hand of his and the seals of in the Writings of the renunsciante under the seal of a given officijuri ~ on the thirtieth day of January, the year of the lord of d {} unless you are in Peru} {nay, seven hundred and twenty-eighth
Morris(Hawarden) Weigh (Hawarden)

Offline Syntill

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Re: Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« Reply #2 on: Monday 28 February 11 17:04 GMT (UK) »
As regards the first document:

I believe the first paragraph means that the will was proved before John Briggs, surrogate for Thomas Waite esquire, Bachelor of Laws and commissary for the archdiocese of Richmond in the diocese of Chester. (That would be Richmond in Yorkshire.)

The will concerns the goods, debts, cattle and chattels of Christopher Waller lately [nuper] of Moorgarth in the parish of Bentham. His widow [viduae relictae] Alice [Alicia] Waller is one of his co-executors. The administration is to be committed to James [Jacobus] Waller, the son of the dead man and the other co-executor.

The last part gives the date: the sixth day of the month of April anno domini 1704.

The rest of the document looks to me like legal flannel. For instance, 'Sub Sigillo officij nri' just means 'under the seal of our office' (officij nri = officii nostri). I think your transcription is a bit wonky in places: for instance, 'arnngeri' must be armigeri, esquire. 'Insceptur' looks to me like a mistake for something else, and so does 'Etime'. A 'proper' translation isn't really possible without more certainty about the transcription: but do you really need one?

Resources you might find useful: Eve McLaughlin's pamphlet 'Simple Latin for Family Historians' has three pages on 'Reading a Latin Will Probate'. Charles Trice-Martin's _The Record Interpreter_ has an extensive list of Latin abbreviations, plus Latin forms of places, bishoprics and Christian names. To the best of my knowledge, there's a copy of this old book in most record offices. Grannum and Taylor's _Wills and Other Probate Records_ is not particularly helpful with legal Latin, but is a very good guide to the law of probate, the legal procedures, and understanding how to interpret wills and related documents.

Offline Redroger

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Re: Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« Reply #3 on: Tuesday 01 March 11 13:55 GMT (UK) »
Don't make life hard for yourselves, some while ago I posted a translation of a typical Latin probate on this site. It is there for all to use, just use the search tool. Basically all probates are the same, the usual difference being in the name of the clergyman or lawyer who certified the grant of probate.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)


Offline GR2

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Re: Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« Reply #4 on: Tuesday 01 March 11 17:16 GMT (UK) »
The second document says that the deceased Rebecca Butterfield was the daughter of the above Alice Waller.

Graham.

Offline HannahJ

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Re: Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« Reply #5 on: Wednesday 02 March 11 20:46 GMT (UK) »
Thank-you all for your responses - particularly to Syntill for that list of resources.  The transcription may indeed be slightly wonky - it is a very clear hand, but several of the author's letter forms are virtually indistinguishable.

H
Looking for:
Baines - Lancaster; Bainbridge - Westmorland & Lancaster; Bodiam - Hollingbourne, Kent; Edmondson - West Riding / Lancashire border; Faraday - all West Riding; Pankhurst - East & West Farleigh, Kent; Parker - Giggleswick, West Riding; Waller & Redmayne - Ingleton, West Riding
and others...

Offline Redroger

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Re: Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« Reply #6 on: Thursday 03 March 11 19:18 GMT (UK) »
As regards the first document:


The rest of the document looks to me like legal flannel. For instance, 'Sub Sigillo officij nri' just means 'under the seal of our office' (officij nri = officii nostri).

Which is why having read and had a few of these translated I thought it best to have a template posted on the site to make things easier for transcribers. However, if you want to make life difficult for yourselves -----
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)

Online RunKitty

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Re: Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« Reply #7 on: Thursday 03 March 11 21:40 GMT (UK) »
Hi Redroger -

Is this the template you mean?  Great resource!!

http://www.rootschat.com/forum/index.php/topic,491796.msg3492675.html#msg3492675

RK :)

Offline Redroger

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Re: Latin translation help please (probate documents)
« Reply #8 on: Friday 04 March 11 19:27 GMT (UK) »
That's the one! Have asked for more prominence to give Rootschatters better opportunity to see it.
Ayres Brignell Cornwell Harvey Shipp  Stimpson Stubbings (all Cambs) Baumber Baxter Burton Ethards Proctor Stanton (all Lincs) Luffman (all counties)