Lazarus Webb

[Colin Bull]

Lazarus Webb junior was born on the 9th June 1898 in Penge, Middlesex and as young children he and his sister Sarah were placed into homes / orphanage's, Lazarus ending up in the Stepney Childrens Home at Stifford near Fobbing in Essex and Sarah in an institution in Guildford, Surrey; Sarah's place of birth is given as Fobbing, Essex, although she was actually born in Kingston, Surrey. The parents were Lazarus Webb (born about 1870) and Bridget Smith they had married at Windsor on the 20th March 1894 and it is this couple that I seek more information about. I know that Lazarus senior was an umberella repairer with a business at Penge and I believe it is likely that he came from Fobbing or nearby but I am struggling with his birth and parentage; his marriage certificate gives his fathers name as John Webb a Tinsmith. There is evidently a link with Fobbing - help please.

[suzard]

Hi,

The family are all together on 1901 census - Lazarus worked from home.

His p.o.b. is Essex -name of place I cannot read.

From the marriage cert- are they bachelor and spinster? Who is Bridget's father and what is his occupation? Who were witnesses at the marriage??

Suz

[Valda]

Hi

Is the difficulty in finding both of them because they came from travelling families?
A potentially interesting couple on the 1891 census.

1891 census RG12 634 folio 36
Bridge Road Orpington Kent
John Webb 22 Lodger Married Hawker Maldon Essex
Jane Webb 21 Lodger Married Hawker Kingston Surrey


The only other instance of the name in the civil registration is also in the Maldon areaiy

Births Jun 1892 
WEBB  Lazarus    Maldon  4a 544


For Lazarus junior to be in the Stepney children's home in Stifford would mean that the Stepney poor law union (and Stepney ratepayers) were paying for his upkeep. The connection therefore would be to Stepney not Essex, with the family falling on hard times there.
There are records surving from the Stifford Children's Homes at the London Metropolitan Archives
Admissions and discharges (1902-23); Creed registers (1902-21)

What institution was Sarah placed in? That also might have records which would give more information.


Regards

Valda

[Colin Bull]

Hi Valda, I think you may have hit the nail on the head with travellers, there is a strong family feeling that they may have been but I think not in the true sense of the word. Regarding the Webb's from Maldon again I think that there is a connection but I will come to that later.

Re Lazarus junior we do have his birth cert and it tells us that he was born 9th June 1898 in Penge, he also told his daughter that he had lived in Fobbing with an uncle and aunt and that they arranged for him to enter the Stifford orphanage in 1910, from there he joined the Royal Navy at 16 years of age, we have his RN record.

He also told his daughter that he had lived with the uncle and aunt at 2 Mill Cottages in Fobbing. The 1911 census for Fobbing shows one family of Webb's living in Fobbing and the mother of this family was born in Maldon (hence the possible link), unfortunately the even numbers of Mill Cottages do not appear on the 1911 census web site!. He had also told his daughter that they were market gardeners.

Sister Sarah was placed as a patient into the 'Meath home of comfort for Epileptics at Guildford, we have not managed to find admission records and have no further records for her.

As I said in my first posting the marriage certificate of Lazarus senior & Bridget Smith states that his father was John Webb & I do have census records for a John Webb married to Caroline and living in Charlton, London; this John Webb was born in Fobbing and was a market gardener, he therefore becomes my favourite but I have nothing definite.

[Valda]

Hi


The Meath Epilepsy Trust still exists

http://www.meath.org.uk/about-us/our-history.aspx

they may know whether any archives exist.

or try Godalming Museum

http://www.exploringsurreyspast.org.uk/GetRecord/WAMSB_T266

http://www.waverley.gov.uk/godalmingmuseum



Market gardener contradicts Lazarus' father's occupation on his marriage certificate of tinsmith, which sounds more like a traveller's occupation.
John Webb the market gardener born Fobbing is in the Woolwich area from at least 1872 (oldest child Rhoda Jane born Charlton 1872). 1881 and 1891 censuses.



Unless Stifford had another orphanage the Stifford Children's Homes were part of Stepney poor law union. From the Workhouse website


'Stifford Children's Homes
In 1901, the Stepney Guardians erected a group of children's cottage homes on an 86-acre green-field site at Stifford in Essex. The homes, which could accommodate 200 boys and girls, were arranged in a south-facing arc as shown on the 1920 map below.'


which was funded by the ratepayers of Stepney for the poor of Stepney. Ratepayers of a poor law union in London would not pay for poor families in Essex. That would be the responsibility of the Essex poor law unions. Fobbing was in Orsett poor law union. Perhaps Orsett union paid Stepney but that would be unusual? Usually the local poor law unions would form up to arrange their own institutions.

You don't really 'arrange' for children to enter the poor law system. Children enter the system because they and their families were destitute or their families deserted them, in which case if they could the poor law union would pursue parent/s for maintenance if they could.
There look to be surviving registers for Stifford.


http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cgi-bin/vcdf/detail?coll_id=12893&inst_id=118&nv1=search&nv2=



Did Lazarus ever say his uncle and aunt were also called Webb?



Regards

Valda